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  1. #1

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    Default Front row brief

    I am going mad looking for this!

    Last night part of ToT for cup game. The ref says to the other AR who he had been AR for the previous night "I noticed you did not brief the front row last night". No came the reply, "not required by Law so to do".

    I said, you really should you know..... Not required, don't do it came the emphatic response.

    So I go looking.

    It is not a law. I can't see it in RFU regs. I have searched posts on here.

    Where does it say you MUST brief the front row?

    I stand by to be deluged with astonished members who can't believe I can't spout the answer but there we are, I don't know and can't find it

    Help please!

    Ps I always do!

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    Prior to the 2000 re-write the law said "He must not give any advice prior to the match", which some people took to mean any pre-match brief was illegal.

    My recollection is that when the new calls came out referees were told they should always include the procedure in their briefing. By now most referees mention it in passing rather than in detail.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    I can always remember a very experienced ref who had reffed what was called first class rugby in the old days advising a 5th team player who had volunteered to ref, when asked what he should do was told, " blow the whistle to start the game and blow the whistle to end the game. In between apply some laws that you know and keep everyone safe." It seems to me that that is all that most refs are required to do under the laws. Everything else is down to you to aid your management.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    we have had this discussion before
    - there is no Law or Regualtion saying that the ref must give a front row brief
    - it is well established as best practice to do a front row brief
    - (but with less agreement about exactly what must/should/should not be said)


    In a court, say, I think the line of questioning that would trip up or your ref is
    - do your society advise everyone to do a Front Row Brief?
    - yes
    - you accept that it is best practice ?
    - yes
    - so why didn't you do one.
    Last edited by crossref; 09-04-15 at 12:04.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    O
    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    we have had this discussion before
    - there is no Law or Regualtion saying that the ref must give a front row brief
    - it is well established as best practice to do a front row brief
    - (but with less agreement about exactly what must/should/should not be said)


    In a court, say, I think the line of questioning that would trip up or your ref is
    - do your society advise everyone to do a Front Row Brief?
    - yes
    - you accept that it is best practice ?
    - yes
    - so why didn't you do one.
    Except when it goes like this.
    In a court, say, I think the line of questioning that would not trip up or your ref is
    - do your society advise everyone to do a Front Row Brief?
    - I don't know I don't attend dev meetings. Ive not heard it and they've not given me any written doco about it?
    - you accept that it is best practice ?
    - no..the scrum pack have been coached so they know what to do?
    - so why didn't you do one.
    - didn't we just go through that? Oh did you know there's this little book with all the laws of the game and it's not in there!
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    @menace - yes, indeed if those were honest answers.

    In reality though it would be a very unususl ref who
    - on the one hand has detailed knowledge of the Laws and Regs, and exatly what is and isn't required
    - but on the other has no idea at all about what other refs all do, and the best practice/training advised by his union or society

    I am not saying that such a ref might not exist!


    A better defence might be yes I am aware that PMB are advised, but could get no definitive statement of what should be in it .. different advice I got was conflicting and confusing. I ascertained from the Laws/Regs that they are not actually mandatory, so in the face of this confusion decided not to do one.

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    Or, " it was so incredibly brief, its often missed"

    if you subscribe to the view that it aids scrum "management" then other than the time saving, why dispense with it?
    Last edited by Browner; 09-04-15 at 15:04.

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post
    O

    Except when it goes like this.
    In a court, say, I think the line of questioning that would not trip up or your ref is
    - do your society advise everyone to do a Front Row Brief?
    - I don't know I don't attend dev meetings. Ive not heard it and they've not given me any written doco about it?
    - you accept that it is best practice ?
    - no..the scrum pack have been coached so they know what to do?
    - so why didn't you do one.
    - didn't we just go through that? Oh did you know there's this little book with all the laws of the game and it's not in there!
    Assuming that the referee has never been assessed? Perhaps you have even fewer assessors than we do.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Assuming that the referee has never been assessed? Perhaps you have even fewer assessors than we do.
    Well Aust is a big place...with some way out places that may not have many assessors/coaches.

    But I was merely pointing out that word of mouth may not go as far as we might hope in the absence of written directives/laws!
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Front row brief

    Accylad, it isn't in the LotG; but...

    I believe that it is good practice to brief the front rows, because it will not only help in your game management but also identify the FR replacements.

    I presume this AR did not pre-match team talk, and didn't even talk with the Captains other than pose the question "Kick or ends?".

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