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Thread: RWC Aus vs Sco

      
  1. #351

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    of course it would have been better had he stayed, but really : you have your priorities all wrong.

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    of course it would have been better had he stayed, but really : you have your priorities all wrong.
    Why? My argument is that criticism of players and officials has two levels, criticism of performance within the ethos of the game, and criticism of conduct outside of the ethos of the game.

    Whilst there is plainly clear blue water between running from the field of play and breaking a mans arm, they are still acts that fall outside of the ethos of Rugby Union and should be criticised differently from a forward pass or a poor decision (in this case I didn't think the decision was that bad in full speed, but that's beside the point).

    It is right that Joubert should be criticised for his decision to leave the field, and it's right that the criticism should extend beyond what he would usually get for a poor decision. It's also right that he fronts up and apologises, because actions like this do damage the game of Rugby and the conduct is only made worse by the fact that referees are meant to be upholding the standards of the game.

    Watching him run from the field of play made everything we're taught about the gentlemanly conduct of rugby union sound like complete bull, and in the absence of evidence that he was under threat on the pitch (which would change things dramatically), we should be expecting a much higher standard of conduct from players and referees.

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    Quote Originally Posted by TimothyQ View Post
    ... We still brand Dylan Hartley and Callum Clark as thugs. Why? Because their conduct fell so dramatically below the standard expected in rugby union, the conduct was so poor as to be outside of the normal sphere of merely criticising performance.


    NO, NO, and NO again! We brand Hartley (in particular) a a thug because he repeatedly does that stuff. A massive difference between CJ an error (but the facts in time may tell a different story) and DH a lack of self control (again and again and again).

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    of course it would have been better had he stayed, but really : you have your priorities all wrong.
    FWIW, this appears to be the response from CJ why he left the field. It seems plausible, but why take so long to say this - would have stopped plenty of rampant speculation.

    Brett Gosper, World Rugby's chief executive, joked that Joubert may have 'needed the bathroom', but the Daily Mailunderstands Joubert told his employers that he sensed the potential for angry scenes on the pitch in front of a huge global audience, so he left quickly to defuse the situation

    http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/det...-ran-off-field

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    I'm sorry, this is tribalism. It should be accepted as self-evident that running from the field of play in order to avoid looking the players in the eye is against the ethos of rugby union, lack of self-control or not. Clark has cited a lack of self control (all that inner chimp nonsense) for his conduct on the field, it's not an acceptable excuse for Clark, it shouldn't be an acceptable excuse for Joubert.

    The debate shouldn't be about law 11.7, it should be about how far Joubert fell below the standards of rugby referee when he fled the field of play in order to avoid looking the Scottish players in the eye.

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    Quote Originally Posted by shebeen View Post
    FWIW, this appears to be the response from CJ why he left the field. It seems plausible, but why take so long to say this - would have stopped plenty of rampant speculation.

    Brett Gosper, World Rugby's chief executive, joked that Joubert may have 'needed the bathroom', but the Daily Mailunderstands Joubert told his employers that he sensed the potential for angry scenes on the pitch in front of a huge global audience, so he left quickly to defuse the situation

    http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/det...-ran-off-field
    Had there been ugly scenes they should be dealt with. It's not for Joubert to essentially slander the Scottish players by saying he expected them to breach the ethos of the game if he didn't leave the field.

    The correct response was a full apology, not an excuse.

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    Quote Originally Posted by TimothyQ View Post

    The debate shouldn't be about law 11.7, it should be about how far Joubert fell below the standards of rugby referee when he fled the field of play in order to avoid looking the Scottish players in the eye.
    the answer is : marignally. It's a minor matter. In no way comaparable to Hartley's eye-gouging, spitting, punching etc.

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    the answer is : marignally. It's a minor matter. In no way comaparable to Hartley's eye-gouging, spitting, punching etc.
    Directly comparable, at least Hartley had the grace to read a scripted apology.

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    the answer is : marignally. It's a minor matter. In no way comaparable to Hartley's eye-gouging, spitting, punching etc.
    And if you actually believe it's a minor matter, I suggest we have dramatically different views on what constitutes respect and good manners.

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    Default Re: RWC Aus vs Sco

    The job isn't to be weak, the game is founded on principles of mutual respect, and Joubert fell dramatically below those standards.


    So who says CJ was being weak? He was doing the right thing, to avoid escalation. It had nothing at all to do with avoiding looking the players in the eye.

    In fact you have some gall to describe as weak an international ref with the guts to go out in front of a mob and do what CJ does.
    Last edited by Greig; 21-10-15 at 10:10.

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