RWC Aus vs Sco

[Ian_Cook]

Question:
Maitland's deliberate knock forward.
Good call or bad call?

IMO, a very poor call.

A deliberate knock forward should be ruled on what the player actually does, not the situation or field position he is in.

There was no slap down; he put his hand in the way of the pass can came within an hair of it sticking. If he had done the exact same action while on attack, i.e. Australia running the ball out of defence 10m from their own goal-line, and with a Scotland defender outside him, would that still have been ruled a deliberate knock-on?

If Maitland managed to catch that, he is very quick... a length of field try was on the cards.

[bcm666]

Whether anyone called the decision right at the time is not the point. Joubert made a decision he thought correct on what he saw. If he didn't see intentional playing of the ball by a gold player he should not guess.

What World Rugby have done is say having reviewed all the angles which you didn't have and we which confirm you were not entitled to ask for by the TMO, we say the decision was wrong. That is post fact substitution of his finding of fact, which many of you have told me is final, with another fact. Sole arbiter and all that? That fact was gained from extraneous knowledge that Joubert did not and could not have. You could go back through every decision he made and find the ones which from different angles and in repeated slow motion show that he erred.

Crowing about 'I called it right at the time' is juvenile. You weren't at pitch level and had the benefit of slow motion replays. He deserves support and I'm surprised that on here of all places there are so many arm-chair experts who do not give it.

He has been hung out to dry and it stinks.
It's an appalling face-saving act and one that will come back to haunt them.

[Dickie E]

IMO, a very poor call.

A deliberate knock forward should be ruled on what the player actually does, not the situation or field position he is in.

There was no slap down; he put his hand in the way of the pass can came within an hair of it sticking. If he had done the exact same action while on attack, i.e. Australia running the ball out of defence 10m from their own goal-line, and with a Scotland defender outside him, would that still have been ruled a deliberate knock-on?

If Maitland managed to catch that, he is very quick... a length of field try was on the cards.

forget about slap downs, etc. IMO he never had any realistic prospect of catching the ball. Sticking a hand out and hoping for the best is not good enough.

[menace]

Crowing about 'I called it right at the time' is juvenile. You weren't at pitch level and had the benefit of slow motion replays. He deserves support and I'm surprised that on here of all places there are so many arm-chair experts who do not give it.

He has been hung out to dry and it stinks.
It's an appalling face-saving act and one that will come back to haunt them.

Bravo....

But can I say that many of the arm-chair experts on here are not, or were not, referees so I probably don't expect them to give CJs support and will excuse their ignorance (especially if they were supporting Scotland or 'not supporting' Aust) but it concerns me more is the ones that have refereed that are still hell bent in saying CJ 'should have done things different' on that call. This is more disappointing as they should know better how hard it can be to get the call 'right' and that's at the lowly levels of old fartonians!

As for WR....well we all know they only have their own personal agendas.....so no surprises there.

[Iron_Lung]

He has been hung out to dry and it stinks.
It's an appalling face-saving act and one that will come back to haunt them.

Well said Brian, and I'm sure all of us appreciate the profile you've given to this aspect of the discussion on Twitter and in the media.

It would be nice if other high profile personalities from Dawson and Hastings (Not to mention Kearns and Martin for that matter) took a similar pragmatic approach to the game and to the decisions made by referees rather than venting their spleens on what they perceive to be a conspiracy of JFK'esque proportions.

It took a couple of days an a bucket load of replays for us to come to a consensus on the PK on this site, among some extremely learned referees. So, other than those suffering from extreme confirmation bias, how anyone could be so sure in the immediate seconds of the incident is beyond me.

[Ian_Cook]

forget about slap downs, etc. IMO he never had any realistic prospect of catching the ball. Sticking a hand out and hoping for the best is not good enough.

What, you mean like the Blue player who intercepted the Gregan pass (he was no closer to the ball than Maitland) and scored under the posts in the 73rd minute?

Do we really want to YC a player because his arms are an inch shorter than the next guy?

IMO, Maitland attempted to catch the ball one handed; there is nothing wrong with doing that. The YC was a crock of shite. CJ saw, in real time and ignored until he was convinced by the TMO and the slow-mo replay

[menace]

forget about slap downs, etc. IMO he never had any realistic prospect of catching the ball. Sticking a hand out and hoping for the best is not good enough.

My last 2 comments on this thread and then I'll give it away (not a promise....just a threat)

1) I thought it was a deliberate knock on vis a vis, not a genuine attempt to catch it but rather an attempt to spoil it. I thought the YC was harsh....but CJ is very consistent when he makes these calls...the perp always gets a YC for their troubles.

I personally judge the 'deliberate' knock on scenario like this by the shape of their hands at point of impact with ball. My 3 step thoughts are:
1) Palms/fingers mostly facing up and I'm thinking players is making an attempt to catch - play on if goes back, knock on if goes forward (they're entitled to have a crack at playing the ball!)
2) palms/fingers vertical or tending to face down then no real attempt to catch ball - PK if goes forward
3) as per 2 but arm/hand in swatting sharp forward motion - if ball goes forward then PK with a possible/likely YC chaser!

My last point on the CJ call is this: IF WR make a change to the TMO review because of this and for such things to be looked at then by God be ready for every restart kick and lineout fingertip touch to be reviewed! . That will be a travesty and will be another way to slow up the game (the time wasted with scrum resets will become the least of our problems!).

[The Fat]

IMO, a very poor call.

A deliberate knock forward should be ruled on what the player actually does, not the situation or field position he is in.

There was no slap down; he put his hand in the way of the pass can came within an hair of it sticking. If he had done the exact same action while on attack, i.e. Australia running the ball out of defence 10m from their own goal-line, and with a Scotland defender outside him, would that still have been ruled a deliberate knock-on?

If Maitland managed to catch that, he is very quick... a length of field try was on the cards.

So how's your TMO technology working out for you Ian?
The Maitland decision proves that even with TMO intervention, there is still no guarantee that the correct decision will be reached.

[Iron_Lung]

So how's your TMO technology working out for you Ian?
The Maitland decision proves that even with TMO intervention, there is still no guarantee that the correct decision will be reached.

Nor can we be certain that match post-mortem or judiciary proceedings will be fair, consistent, logical or transparent... depressing isn't it? lol

[Dickie E]

so how's your tmo technology working out for you ian?
The maitland decision proves that even with tmo intervention, there is still no guarantee that the decision that you think is correct will be reached.

ftfy