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Thread: Ball dropped while trying to score

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post

    I think this makes it unequivocally clear that the aim was to change the law from awarding a drop-out to awarding a scrum. I don't see that there has been a significant change in the law since then.
    but OB these both refer to knock-ons in the field of play, that go into the in-goal and are touched down.
    That's definitely a scrum, I agree.
    That's coverered by today's (c)
    c) Knock-on or throw forward into the in-goal. If an attacking player knocks-on or throws-forward in the field of play and the ball goes into the opponents’ in-goal and it is made dead there, a scrum is awarded where the knock-on or throw forward happened.

    but where the knock on takes place in goal, the Law is worded differently (d) and in that instance I see no reason why defenders shouldn't touch down for a DO

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    To me, the situation being described here sound more like they're referring to knock-ons into in goal, rather than knock-ons in goal.
    I remember players waiting for a knocked-on ball to travel into in-goal then claiming the DO and that is what this was trying to stop (though it was a long time ago and my memory is a bit hazy).
    It covered both, which is why I quoted both the knock-on law and the In-goal law.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    It covered both, which is why I quoted both the knock-on law and the In-goal law.
    No, your quotes from 1978 and 1981 all cover the scenario of the ball being knocked on INTO the in goal

    1978
    14 (3) Except where a try or goal is scored, if an attacking player kicks, carries, passes or knocks the ball and it travels into his opponents' in-goal either directly or after having touched a defender who does not wilfully attempt to stop, catch, or kick it, and it is there grounded buy a player of either team, or goes into touch-in-goal or over the dead ball line a drop out shall be awarded.

    17 Note (3) If an attacking player knocks-on in the field of play and the ball travels into in-goal either directly or after having touched a defender who does not wilfully attempt to stop, catch, or kick it, and it is there grounded by a player of either team, or goes into touch-in-goal or over the dead ball line a drop out shall be awarded.


    1981
    14 (3) Except where the ball is knocked on or thrown forward or if an attacking player kicks, carries or passes the ball and it travels into his opponents' in-goal either directly or after having touched a defender who does not wilfully attempt to stop, catch, or kick it, and it is there grounded buy a player of either team, or goes into touch-in-goal or over the dead ball line a drop out shall be awarded.

    17 Note (iii) if an attacking player kicks, carries, passes or knocks the ball and it travels into his opponents' in-goal either directly or after having touched a defender who does not wilfully attempt to stop, catch, or kick it, and it is there grounded buy a player of either team, or goes into touch-in-goal or over the dead ball line, a scrummage should be awarded at the place of the knock-on or throw-forward.

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    OBs earlier post crossref
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  5. #25

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    The point is - 12.1 c) and d) are clearly and explicitly different. When it's knocked from the field of play into the in-goal, the scrum is from the point of the infringement, not the 5m line.
    except presumably when the knockon occured < 5m from the line in which case it is a 5m scrum surely?

    didds

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    Sorry - I forgot to include the 1989 update:
    14 (3) Except where the ball is knocked on or thrown-forward in the field of play or in in-goal [...]
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    well, let's have the whole 1989 Law then - what does it say ?

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    well, let's have the whole 1989 Law then - what does it say ?
    It says the same as the previous version ie but for the exceptions the result would be a drop out. However the exceptions are therefore dealt with as a knock-on or throw-forward. Scrummage.

    (I can't be bothered to type out the whole thing.)
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    My view is that current law is clear and unambiguous for a change!

    12.1 a) through d) all provide the single option of a scrum from an accidental knock on. Nothing in the current law 8 prevents advantage being played from any knock on that does not go directly into touch or touch in goal (dead).

    Advantage can be accrued by the act of making the ball dead, rather than after it. A defender recovering the ball in in-goal and touching it down is actively realising that advantage in the same way as if they recovered a knock on in the fop and immediately made it dead by a clearing kick to touch.

    Similarly if an in goal defender was to kick or run a knock on into touch in goal it could be advantage gained.

    12.1 c) and d) tell us what happens if no advantage accrues, such as when the knock on goes directly touch in goal.

    The referee is then the sole judge as to advantage gained.

    Why are we looking at words long removed from the laws to reinterpret what is very clearly expressed in the current law?
    Chris Johnson

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Ball dropped while trying to score

    not quite - (c) (knocked INTO goal) is a special case : it tells you that when the ball is knock INTO goal, and touched down, you actually go back for the scrum. We all agree that's clear.

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