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Thread: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

      
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    Default Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    Learned colleagues, was the decision to award a 5-metre scrum to Team A in the following instances correct?

    a. Team A hoofs the ball into Team B's in-goal, where a scrambling Team B player tries to catch it. The ball slips backwards through his hands, hits the ground, and rolls across his team's dead ball line.

    b. Team A kicks the ball into Team B's in-goal, where a Team B player desperately dives to touch it down. He falls short so that the tops of his fingers propel the ball backwards along the ground over his team's dead ball line.

    To clarify, in neither case did the defender knock the ball on (Law 22.14), ground it (Law 22.5), hold the ball when it crossed the dead ball line (Law 22.1.a), or intentionally throw the ball over the dead ball line (Law 10.2.c).

    Does Law 22.11, which says what happens when a ball (as opposed to a player) touches the touch-in goal or dead ball lines, suggest that the decision could have been a 22-m drop-out instead (Law 22.7 has a similar implication)?

    It is not an infringement in the field of play to let the ball fall backwards, and in-goal infringements "are treated as if they had taken place in the field of play" (Law 22.16).

    Is there a law or guideline that specifies that it is an infringement when the ball falls backwards in the in-goal and the dead ball line comes into play?

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    should be a 22 dropout in both cases. Provided no knock on or other infringement, it only matters who put the ball into in-goal
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    Thanks, Dickie, I had similar thoughts.

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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    As Dickie said, 22 DO in both cases. Only time that would change would be

    (1) defender failed to touch the ball and it went dead from the attacker's kick

    (2) defender deliberately knocked the ball dead with his hand/arm

    (3) defender knocked on
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    As Dickie said, 22 DO in both cases. Only time that would change would be

    (1) defender failed to touch the ball and it went dead from the attacker's kick

    (2) defender deliberately knocked the ball dead with his hand/arm

    (3) defender knocked on
    Outcomes/Sanctions added...

    (1) defender failed to touch the ball and it went dead from the attacker's kick
    Outcome:
    Defending team has options - Law 22.8
    1. 22DO
    2. Scrum where the ball was kicked from, their throw in


    (2) defender deliberately knocked the ball dead with his hand/arm
    Sanction:
    PK against defending team - Law 10.2 (c)
    Mark for the PK is on the 5m line, opposite theplace of infringement but no closer than 15 from either touchline - Law 10.2 (c)
    Possible PT - Laws 10.2 (c) & 22.17 (b)


    (3) defender knocked on
    Sanction:
    5M scrum in line with where the ball crossed the DBL - Law 22.14
    Attacking team throw in
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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    I agree with the other posters - if the attackers take the ball into the in goal, and the defenders subsequently make it dead, then the outcome is always going to be a 22m DO


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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I agree with the other posters - if the attackers take the ball into the in goal, and the defenders subsequently make it dead, then the outcome is always going to be a 22m DO

    I see what you did there
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    Yes 22 do. Ian, not sure how the defender could knock on over the dbl? Place of scrum5 would be in lime with th Ko?

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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    Yes 22 do. Ian, not sure how the defender could knock on over the dbl? Place of scrum5 would be in lime with th Ko?
    Not sure why you think I said the defender knocked the ball on over the DBL . I didn't

    It is illegal to knock, propel or throw the ball into touch, TiG or over the DBL in ANY diorection

    I even posted the Law number ... 10.2 (c). Look it up
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    Default Re: Ball lost backwards across dead ball line

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    Yes 22 do. Ian, not sure how the defender could knock on over the dbl? Place of scrum5 would be in lime with th Ko?
    No, but he could knock on over TiG.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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