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Thread: Was it right?

      
  1. #1

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    Default Was it right?

    Toulon get a last minute try and need the conversion to win.
    It gets charged down, the ref goes to the TMO and says charge down was ok.
    However, although the charge down was good and started when the kick began, there were players still in front of and walking back to the try line. The ref must have decided they were immaterial to the charge down.

    1. Was the ref right in law?
    2. Was he right in principle?




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    Default Re: Was it right?

    great question -- it's a variation on the fast&unexpected restart and the fast&unexpected lineout questions that we discuss from time to time.

    One complication here is that unlike the lineout and restart, the conversion kicker has a 90s clock running, if you were to require him to wait for everyone to be in position, you have to stop the clock if people are dawdling and deal with the dawdlers.

    In this case I don't think the retiring players were material, and nor were they dawdling to waste time. Also he took the kick very quickly, he wasn't under any 90s pressure and could have waited a little if he wanted.

    (and I don't think the kicker was complaining about them, I think he felt the charge was early (it was very close!))

    so I think
    1 - the Law doesn't really cover this
    2 - in this case, right decision

    good quesition
    Last edited by crossref; 10-03-16 at 11:03.

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    Default Re: Was it right?

    Those retiring were not in the way of the kick, so I cannot see that they were material. I don't think the kicker was constrained by the 90s time limit, so he could have waited for them to retire. The kick was too low or taken too close to the posts. I would allow the charge down. Kicker at fault.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Was it right?

    I agree, kicker was at fault here.

    Also, if the referee had allowed a re-take, and that became the norm, then surely every kicker would just rush to have a first go (e.g. take a dropkick?), knowing that if they take it before all the defenders have retired they get another bite at the cherry?

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    Default Re: Was it right?

    No way the retiring players were material.

    The only thing I'd be unhappy about if I were a Toulon player is was the left-hand charger (from the kicker's perspective, with the white boots) overstepped the line before he started charging?

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    Default Re: Was it right?

    Charger has one foot in front of goal line. Enough to disallow the charge?

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    Default Re: Was it right?

    I don't know if the referee was correct in terms of the LoTG.
    However it was the last kick of the game. The points would have won the game for his team. Why on earth did he not take his time about the kick and make sure it went over. The dadwlers can be forgiven for thinking that they were going to get back to the goal line in time for the kick, it's not Sevens!

    That said had he attempted a drop goal, a la Sevens, the trajectory might have been too high for the charge down.
    Allowing that a placekick trajectory = 40 degrees
    Close range drop kick trajectory = 70 degrees
    (Bio-mechanical experts refrain from criticism.)
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 10-03-16 at 14:03.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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    Default Re: Was it right?

    Maurauder
    Is is material? Yes he blocked the kick.
    Was he over the line? Yes - as per earlier discussions on offside surely we want both feet in the in goal

    So had I had that replay I would order a rekick.
    Extremely tight, but - if you go to a replay it is because these things are tight.

    Though I think the kicker could easily have gone back another 5 metres and got the ball over any potential charge, so morally the right decision.

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    Default Re: Was it right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marauder View Post
    Charger has one foot in front of goal line. Enough to disallow the charge?
    My thought exactly; he was the charger that blocked the ball, too.

    But: why kick from so close?

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Was it right?

    It's Toulouse not Toulon!

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