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Thread: Lineout over after uncontested maul

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    Quote Originally Posted by jdeagro View Post
    Couldn't it be argued as time wasting as much as if the ball carrier in open play breaks the defensive line, out runs the defenders who then give up on the chase, and the ball carrier just stands idle in the in goal instead of grounding the ball?
    I have never seen a penalty given for that and hope I never do.

    Time wasting sanction is about stopping a team wasting time while ball is out of play and the opposition can do nothing about it.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 27-09-16 at 06:09.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I have never seen a penalty given for that and hope I never do.
    Not a penalty, but I was once hurried up by the ref in the sort of situation ChrisR describes. Though this was a fair way off top-flight rugby, so I'd expect the referee was, too.

    To be fair, I was deliberately running the clock down.

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I have never seen a penalty given for that and hope I never do.

    Time wasting sanction is about stopping a team wasting time while ball is out of play and the opposition can do nothing about it.
    Honestly when I first learnt that some officials call this time wasting I felt like something was off, but I have seen it happen at the non-professional level here in the states, and have been told by referees (whom I respect as intelligent officials) that the situation I described can be considered time wasting. Especially even more so in a 7s match I've heard of it being called, which is why I figured when you see a breakaway run the ball carrier tries to milk the clock by slowly walking towards the back of the in goal to ground the ball if they're clear of defenders.

  4. #34
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    If the ball is still in play then it can't be time wasting. Annoying, yes.

    There are some specific scenarios where a player is required to act 'without delay' such as taking a 22 drop out or grounding the ball that goes into goal from a kick-off. These examples are not 'time wasting'.

  5. #35

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Time wasting sanction is about stopping a team wasting time while ball is out of play and the opposition can do nothing about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    If the ball is still in play then it can't be time wasting.
    10.2 (b) Time-wasting. A player must not intentionally waste time.

    Sanction: Free Kick
    I see no reason to infer that the ball must be out of play.

    I agree that tactics such as holding the ball in the scrum have been dealt with by formally allowing the referee to call "Use it", but presumably that was felt preferable to asking referees to call it time-wasting.

    Unfortunately I cannot recall ever seeing time wasting invoked, so no case law on how referees use it.
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  6. #36

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    if the ball is in play I don't see that anyone can be timewasting.

    If the oppo don't like the way the ball is is being played, then go and get it off them!

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    If I cited Will Carling playing for Quins at Twickenham as the prime case for not delaying before grounding the ball, would anyone know what I was referring to???
    Last edited by Dan_A; 27-09-16 at 15:09.

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    if the ball is in play I don't see that anyone can be timewasting.
    So why did they introduce "Use it"?

    You may well think that running up and down in in-goal without bothering to ground the ball is not time wasting, but that is not necessarily how another referee might see it. Perhaps we should add that to the list of occasions when the referee can call "Use it".
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    So why did they introduce "Use it"?
    I think general time-wasting is linked in with the idea of a fair contest. The instances in which a referee will typically tell a team to 'use it' are all where they have complete control of the ball in such a way that there isn't a fair contest, but aren't actually doing anything with it.

    The player strutting around in goal, in that case, isn't preventing a fair contest. If the opposition want to stop him wasting time, they can.

    IIRC the discussed reasons in the scrum were around safety - you were seeing (at the top level) the ball at the 8's feet while they tried to force a scrum penalty.

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Lineout over after uncontested maul

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    So why did they introduce "Use it"?

    .
    what DocY said - also note that the sanction for not 'using it' isn't a FK for timewasting, it's a scrum. ie it's a slightly different thing.

    I think 'use it' is aimed partly at safety, and partly just to make the game a better spectacle.

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