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    Default NZ trials

    Just seen this



    I'm not really sure what this sets out to do - the only definite differences I see here are

    - tackler must now play the ball from "his side" only
    - the breakdown (they didn't use the word ruck though!) exists once just one supporter arrives over the ball.

    It also hints at no jackling at a tackle. But I do note the only bit that clip mentions here is no hands past the ball and no hands at the breakdown. It doesn't actually ever address whether an oppo can jackle for the ball at the tackle or not - and what happens if a supporter subsequently arrives after the jackler has hands on.

    ??

    didds

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    Default Re: NZ trials

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Just seen this

    <video snipped>

    I'm not really sure what this sets out to do - the only definite differences I see here are

    - tackler must now play the ball from "his side" only
    - the breakdown (they didn't use the word ruck though!) exists once just one supporter arrives over the ball.

    It also hints at no jackling at a tackle. But I do note the only bit that clip mentions here is no hands past the ball and no hands at the breakdown. It doesn't actually ever address whether an oppo can jackle for the ball at the tackle or not - and what happens if a supporter subsequently arrives after the jackler has hands on.

    ??

    didds
    From the IRB website (the bit in red added by me)

    Law 16 – Breakdown

    1. A breakdown commences when at least one player from the attacking team (that is a team-mate of the tackled player) is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler plus one more). At this point the offside line is created (new definition).
    2. Only players acting as a half-back can play the ball with their hands (lift the ball out of the breakdown). They must be on their feet and on-side. They must subsequently run, pass or kick (new 16.2 – Joining a breakdown). A half-back is any one player who is not part of the breakdown and behind the hindmost foot who is in a position to play the ball emerging from the breakdown. The hindmost foot will be the offside line for half-back players.
    3. Offside line at a ruck is the back foot plus one metre. If the back foot of the hindmost player is on or behind the goal line, the offside line for the defending team is the goal line. To be policed by assistant referees (new 16.5 (a) – offside at the breakdown).
    4. All arriving players must come from an onside position (see 3 above) and can enter their side of the breakdown mid-point (no gate). Players must remain on their feet (new 16.5 (c)).
    5. No players at breakdown can have hands on the ground beyond the ball, hold onto or lean on or have knees on players on the ground. Players off their feet sealing the ball will be penalised. Arriving players encouraged to drive over or past the ball (existing 16.4).
    6. Players must not handle the ball in a breakdown once the breakdown is formed. Once the breakdown contest is formed the player must release the ball (new 16.4 – other breakdown offences).
    7. The breakdown ends when the ball emerges or the ball is picked up (new 16.6 – successful end to a breakdown).


    So it would seem that when the ball carrier is tackled

    1. The tackler can no longer play the ball from any direction, he has to play from a 180° arc on his side of the ball
    2. Any team-mate of the tackler can still jackle for the ball provided he enters through the gate and gets hands on before the breakdown is formed by the arrival of a team-mate of the tackled player.

    IMO, this is a poorly thought out Law. It will make getting a turnover it so difficult that teams won't even bother trying. Instead, expect to see trench warfare break out all over the rugby fields of New Zealand as defenders stay away from the breakdown an line-up along the offside line.
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    Default Re: NZ trials

    Thanks Ian.


    1) so if a jackler manages to get hands on post-tackle but THEN a team mate of the tackled player arrives over the ball the jackler MUST release?

    2) How does an onside player at a ruck join the ruck given to do so will require them to be firstly offisde in order to get to the ruck?

    3) The video doesn't seem to support this hind foot + 1m ?


    didds

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    Default Re: NZ trials

    Seems strange - a "breakdown" is tackled + tackler + 1 more.
    What happens if we have a tackle and no tackler (i.e. tackler doesn't go to ground? - of is this also changed?)

    How do you enter the breakdown from an onside position, when that is back 1m?

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    Default Re: NZ trials

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    Seems strange - a "breakdown" is tackled + tackler + 1 more.
    What happens if we have a tackle and no tackler (i.e. tackler doesn't go to ground? - of is this also changed?)
    Good question.

    How do you enter the breakdown from an onside position, when that is back 1m?
    If you are 1m back from the breakdown, you can cross that gap for the sole purpose of joining the breakdown.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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    Default Re: NZ trials

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    Seems strange - a "breakdown" is tackled + tackler + 1 more.
    What happens if we have a tackle and no tackler (i.e. tackler doesn't go to ground? - of is this also changed?)

    How do you enter the breakdown from an onside position, when that is back 1m?
    I understood it to mean you had to be 1m+ behind the back foot when the breakdown/ruck formed. Players in front of this 1m line cannot join the breakdown/ruck.

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    Default Re: NZ trials

    another question from anpther place -

    ... does this scrumhalf only plays the ball thing stop pick and go?

    Does it mean the rear player cannot disengage and pick and go?

    and with any supporters being at least a metre behind (and not eg "just" on the offside line) it may make this tactic less attractive

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 06-04-16 at 13:04.

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    Default Re: NZ trials

    <ignore>..........
    Last edited by didds; 06-04-16 at 13:04.

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    Default Re: NZ trials

    Ian's explanation here in red ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    From the IRB website (the bit in red added by me)

    Law 16 – Breakdown

    1. A breakdown commences when at least one player from the attacking team (that is a team-mate of the tackled player) is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler plus one more). At this point the offside line is created (new definition).
    Ian, without wishing to suggest you may have taken a liberty, is this absolutely 100% or a reasonable interpretation from the misleading use of "attacking"?
    Don't feed the pedant!

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    Default Re: NZ trials

    Quote Originally Posted by BigClothesSir View Post
    I understood it to mean you had to be 1m+ behind the back foot when the breakdown/ruck formed. Players in front of this 1m line cannot join the breakdown/ruck.
    I don't think this can be right. Imagine a last-but-one-man White #14 taking a Garryowen and being tackled by a chaser; last man White #15 arrives to prevent the chasers picking the ball up and forms the breakdown. That's the lot for White; everyone else was offside when the breakdown commenced, and therefore, on this interpretation can't join the breakdown.

    I'm guessing it means you have to retreat 1m behind the HMF before turning around and joining the breakdown.

    HOWEVER: What happens if W7 aims to join the breakdown at its midpoint but gets caught out by the other side getting a shove on? Does he have to retreat 1m behind HMF again, or is it enough to retreat behind midpoint and join direct from there?

    Further again: Having initially retreated behind HMF+1, can he join the breakdown behind midpoint by going around the opposition's side of the breakdown - ie navigating 270 degrees around it? And if not, why not?

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