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Thread: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    this incident was a very unusual one - we discussed it here at the time,
    Here's a in in depth account of the game
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...on-rugby-union

    - his parents (who were present) raise concerns about him at half time, and neither the coach nor referee take heed.
    then in second half
    - he is knocked out in a hard tackle and is on the floor for 90s before being helped to feet
    - four minutes later he is involved in a clash of heads
    - the coach does a concussion test and decides he can play on
    - video shows him holding his head and displaying classic symptoms
    - coach gives him a second concussion test (of some sort) holding up fingers etc and decides he can play on
    - referee says (at the inquest) he thought some of the players were being drama queens and prima donnas
    - Ben saying 'I am not remembering this' 'I can't rememberr the score'
    - mother complains agian
    - just before end of the game he suffers another blow and collapses

    The lesson of this story does not appear to be that it was a random event out of the blue that could happen to any unlucky ref/coach....

    This makes me angry.

    Even if the parents' concerns at half time might not have been warranted....

    "- he is knocked out in a hard tackle and is on the floor for 90s before being helped to feet"

    If a person is knocked unconscious THEN THEY HAVE BEEN CONCUSSED. No further tests are required, the criteria is met right there and the player has failed the concussion assessment at the first bullet point.

    http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/?documentid=158
    "Loss of consciousness, being knocked out, occurs in less than 10% of concussions. Loss of consciousness is not a requirement for diagnosing concussion but is a clear indication that a concussion has been sustained."


    Some time ago, around the time it was in the news that Jamie Cudmore was suing Clermont over concussion issues, I spoke to a local doctor who is a head trauma specialist. He told me that if you get a head knock severe enough to make you lose consciousness then by definition, you have injured your brain, and therefore you have concussion. When I asked him if a player who has been observed to be unconscious after suffering a head knock, should be removed from play, his answer was emphatic... "Yes, most definitely."

    If you suffer blow to the head, and have lost conciousness, then you have been concussed... end of!

    Benjamin should have been permanently taken off right there; that he wasn't must border on criminal negligence on the part of everyone involved; coaches, managers & match officials.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 01-11-16 at 01:11.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    This incident happened in 2011. Can anybody remond us what protocols were in place at the time? Did the referee comply with the required procedures at the time?

    My question is not meant to distract from player safety. But it can be easy to condem a person when the situation and understanding of events have changed.
    Last edited by Pegleg; 01-11-16 at 08:11.

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    The Guardian article has quite a lot on it

    youngest, had gone'

    Have you ever heard of the Scat? If you haven't, you are in good company. The acronym stands for Standardised Concussion Assessment Tool. The pocket version is a card that lists the nine "red flag" symptoms. If any one of those nine is detected, the Scat says in red text, "the player should be safely and immediately removed from the field." The Scat was drawn up at the Zurich International Consensus Conference for Concussion in Sport, which is held every four years. The IRB is represented at the Consensus Conference, as is Fifa, the International Olympic Committee, and the International Ice Hockey Federation.

    The reminder card
    The reminder card now handed out by Peter Robinson, about recognising concussion in rugby union. Photograph: Guardian
    It takes seconds to download and print a Scat card. Every rugby coach, every rugby referee, should have the latest edition – the Scat3 – in their pocket. But the blunt truth is that most club and school players, coaches, and referees have never heard of it. To get a Scat card from the IRB, you have to find it on their website and download your own copy. As Peter Robinson says, it feels as if "the IRB ask people to go online and educate themselves". They do not issue Scat cards as standard. In fact, the edition of the Scat available from the IRB is four years out of date. It was superseded by a new version earlier this year. Superseded everywhere, that is, except on the IRB's website. The referee in charge of the match between Carrickfergus Grammar and Dalriada admitted at the first hearing, which took place almost a year after Ben's death, that he had never heard of the Scat. Neither had the Carrickfergus coach

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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    That article is not true in Wales. I have to defend the WRU for once. We have Regular Concussion training in pur society and the leaflets are sent to clubs on a regular basis. Training is given. Of course you can take a horse to water etc...

    That's why I asked about the time of this incident. I can't recall the procedures that were in place at that time.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    Just checked and I saved a copy of the Scat 2 to my files in August 2011. So it was in existence in the 2011/12 season at least.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    this bit has a familiar ring ---
    In fact, the edition of the Scat available from the IRB is four years out of date. It was superseded by a new version earlier this year. Superseded everywhere, that is, except on the IRB's website.
    the IRB probably couldn't see the point of the website, after all it had been sent out in a cascading email...

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    After criticising coaches about their approach to concussions, I feel I should share an incident from the weekend.

    A player was down and the physio was seeing to them. At the next break in play I ran over to have a look to hear the player say "No, I'm fine. I just feel a bit dizzy". The physio and I exchanged knowing looks and he told the player he needed to go off. No hassle at all.

  8. #28

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    Rank Bajin!
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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    "You feeling dizzy No 13?"
    I'm better thanks Sir
    "Were you dizzy?"
    I'm feeling better thanks

    "Coach, he's going off."
    But he said he's feeling better....

    I despair sometimes
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    Watching a girls game yesterday, player leaves the pitch (not sure why), coach goes to get her.
    Ref asks, "what's going on"
    Coach: "she's got concussion",(there was no sign of any kind of SCAT test)
    ref: "is she coming back on?"
    Player walks back on and coach leads her off.

    Hands up who thinks she'll miss the next 23 days playing
    __________________________________________________ _______

    happy with this posting

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

    That depends on the coach - and given they led her off, they might be sensible and keep her off.
    But it does show that we need to do something about training refs, especially non-society refs appointed directly by clubs to cover gams (which includes me).

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