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Thread: Not straight. Again. And again.

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    19.7 Incorrect throw in

    (a) If the throw-in at a lineout is incorrect, the opposing team has the choice of throwing in at a
    lineout or a scrum on the 15-metre line. If they choose the throw-in to the lineout and it is
    again incorrect, a scrum is formed. The team that took the first throw-in throws in the ball.


    (c) A player must not intentionally or repeatedly throw the ball in not straight.
    Sanction: Penalty kick on the 15-metre line
    How the throw-in takes place


    I agree with didds, the choice of line-out or scrum is much more of an advantage than a FK.

    Escalating to PK is an available option but YC is harsh as the PK is already for repeat offence.
    what I actually meant (though I appreciate the agreement :-) is that betweena team's own 22 and deep into the oppo 22, an FK award ends up in a scrum anyway for most teams. so awarding a FK is in itself meanigless... and removes the LO option to the other team that they would otherwise have.

    I can see that its an escalation process to go from scrum-or-lineout to eventual PK... but even then this is now PKing somebody for incomptence... which _personally_ I am not sure I can agree with. (see above).



    didds

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    a secondary thought...

    IF one were to YC a thrower for persistent not straight, and the next thrower stands forward and he throws not straight... is that a YC for him then as well for continuation of repeated NS? Who on earth is going to stand up to throw in with the prospect of a YC hanging over them?

    didds

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    At a scrum for not straight the rule is: Warning --- FK --- PK --- YC. What is the difference with a line out? I can see the point of missing out the FK but YC and maybe he'll practice a bit more.

    Also who is to say he is throwing not straight because the other side has a very good line out?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    It's a moot point since the FK isn't an option but I agree (again) that a FK inside own 22 or a quick tap can be a benefit. Otherwise I think the LO/scrum is a better option.

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    He was throwing to the front more than the middle or back. In fact, he didn't go to the back at all that I remember.

    My Coach - who didn't come to coach, just to watch some rugby - suggested I could have gone to my pocket earlier.
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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post

    My Coach - who didn't come to coach, just to watch some rugby - suggested I could have gone to my pocket earlier.
    how - on the day - would that have actually "helped" anyone though (except the oppo presumably!). Surely YC is a deterrent in terms of it potentially being shown. How can you deter someone that hasn't the skills to do any better (as clearly was the case here). You can YC him, he comes back on and the next LO he does it again, so presumably at that juncture RC him. What does that ultimately achieve except being RCd for incompetence?

    We can make arguments about its the team's punishment etc - with some validity - but in the weeds this may be a bloke that doesn't normally throw but all the throwers are sick/injured/away/dragged up a team cos their normal thrower is sick/injured/away etc. cards are a literal progression, but not very "safety-ENJOYMENT-law" orientated in this scenario. Especially for the individual concerned.

    I am conflicted here - but overall I am not convinced that carding someone for straight incompetence is really a solution.

    Taken to an extreme, that potentially means that team X could end up with (say) two - or more! - RCs for incompetence per game .. because lets face it team B will kick to touch quite happily and conceed the throw because they know they will always end up with the ball back, so you could see a lot more LOs than normal, for team A to throw in. It isn;t really of any benefit at all. Its not an offence like offside. And frankly takes far more ability than to put the ball into a scrum straight!

    didds

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    but YC and maybe he'll practice a bit more.
    maybe - but that doesn't help at this juncture at that moment in time.

    And maybe he never normally throws but through exceptional circumstances his team has no thrower and he volunteered/got volunteered. Its happened to me.

    didds

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    I think "in the weeds" we apply different standards for repeated offences. So we'd not be going to YC on the third occasion. Common sense also would apply in windy conditions. Especially if the hooker was throwing to the front rather than middle or back.

    I leave the question on the table though about the scrum. We go through the process of warning ect up to red card. Again this may be a technical issue too. Of course many line out throwers are off target deliberately just as much a SHs.

    Do those who object to the YC for the Hooker also opposing for the SH?

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    ... and removes the LO option to the other team that they would otherwise have.
    Surely 21.4 (b) applies and they do have they lineout option from a FK or PK for not straight?

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    Default Re: Not straight. Again. And again.

    19.7 INCORRECT THROW-IN

    (c) A player must not intentionally or repeatedly throw the ball in not straight.
    Sanction: Penalty kick on the 15-metre line

    Make it clear that the law makers expect a PK for the lack of skill. Also the other side can chose a scrum or a line out ifthe prefer it to the PK. Of course, there is no FK option at the line out we go straight to the PK. Perhaps the line out chould be brought into line with the scum and Law 19.7 (c) should carry a FK sanction instead of the PK.

    21.4 PENALTY AND FREE KICK OPTIONS AND REQUIREMENTS
    (a) Scrum alternative. A team awarded a penalty or free kick may choose a scrum instead.
    They throw in the ball.
    (b) Lineout alternative. A team awarded a penalty or a free kick at a lineout may choose a
    further lineout into which they throw in. This is in addition to the scrum option.

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