Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: knock on? really?

      
  1. #1

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,436
    Thanks (Received)
    56
    Likes (Received)
    864

    Default knock on? really?

    We have discussed in the past the actions of a player putting the ball onto a heel such that it gets "chipped" over his head towards the oppo DBL. Its often (though not universally) been called as a knock on.

    How about this then?

    http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2016/1...-to-score.html


    (run the video!)



    Its also here on facebook for those with accounts (ot seems the permissions are set to public)
    https://www.facebook.com/alan.knucke...5434203483294/

    didds

  2. #2

    Referees in Canada


    Soc/Assoc
    .
    Join Date
    27 May 11
    Posts
    376
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    Why would this be called a knock on?! It in no way meets any of the qualifications of a knock on.
    He drops/releases the ball behind himself, and kicks it with his heel forward.

    If we are ok with a regular kick of the ball from the hand or a drop kick(where the ball carrier actually releases the ball forward and in front of them) then surely this example can't be deemed a knock on.

    It's a legal kick forward - end of discussion.

  3. #3

    Referees in America
    thepercy's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    New York State Rugby Referees Society
    Grade
    Level 1
    Join Date
    21 Sep 13
    Posts
    619
    Thanks (Received)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    86

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyseep View Post
    Why would this be called a knock on?! It in no way meets any of the qualifications of a knock on.
    He drops/releases the ball behind himself, and kicks it with his heel forward.

    If we are ok with a regular kick of the ball from the hand or a drop kick(where the ball carrier actually releases the ball forward and in front of them) then surely this example can't be deemed a knock on.

    It's a legal kick forward - end of discussion.
    Kick: A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee; a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground.

  4. #4

    Referees in Canada


    Soc/Assoc
    .
    Join Date
    27 May 11
    Posts
    376
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Kick: A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee; a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground.
    I still don't know how you classify that as a knock on.
    And the stipulation that a kick can't be from the heel, despite being in law, has no logic to it.
    I would dare any ref to call that a knock on or apply any other sanction for being hit with a heel, and try to walk off the pitch without being laughed at.

  5. #5

    Referees in America
    Not Kurt Weaver's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Ohio
    Grade
    C3
    Join Date
    11 Sep 08
    Posts
    1,903
    Thanks (Received)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    94
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    [QUOTE=Guyseep;322744
    And the stipulation that a kick can't be from the heel, despite being in law, has no logic to it.
    [/QUOTE]

    Well uh, players in ruck or scrum heel the ball back to SH. So if it were considered a kick to heel, rucking or scrum teammates fore of player heeling would be offside and obstructing.

  6. #6

    Referees in Canada


    Soc/Assoc
    .
    Join Date
    27 May 11
    Posts
    376
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kurt Weaver View Post
    Well uh, players in ruck or scrum heel the ball back to SH. So if it were considered a kick to heel, rucking or scrum teammates fore of player heeling would be offside and obstructing.
    Again I would be floored if a heel was not considered a kick and someone heeled the ball back and a ref decided to call a penalty based on the situation described above.

    It's just completely illogical. How could hitting the ball deliberately with your foot (any part of your foot) not be considered a kick?!

  7. #7

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    D&W
    Grade
    RFU 9
    Join Date
    11 Sep 07
    Posts
    869
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    26

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Kick: A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee; a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground.
    That is the definition of a "formal" kick, e.g. kick off, penalty, etc, to stop the "bounce it on the knee and run away" things that used to happen. A knock on has to come off the hand or arm, in theory, so we would judge someone who threw it up and headed it forward to have knocked on, or thrown forward deliberately. This just seems to be cleverer way around that problem.

  8. #8

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,436
    Thanks (Received)
    56
    Likes (Received)
    864

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Kick: A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee; a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground.
    law number?

    The only one I could find was 21.3(a) [see my other thread] - which is in the penalty and free kicks section. Which are not in open play.

    didds

  9. #9

    Referees in America
    Rank Bajin!
    SimonSmith's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Virginia (USA)
    Grade
    B3
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    8,254
    Thanks (Received)
    48
    Likes (Received)
    675

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    It's in definitions
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  10. #10

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,436
    Thanks (Received)
    56
    Likes (Received)
    864

    Default Re: knock on? really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyseep View Post
    Why would this be called a knock on?! It in no way meets any of the qualifications of a knock on.
    He drops/releases the ball behind himself, and kicks it with his heel forward.

    If we are ok with a regular kick of the ball from the hand or a drop kick(where the ball carrier actually releases the ball forward and in front of them) then surely this example can't be deemed a knock on.

    It's a legal kick forward - end of discussion.
    I totally agree Guysdep... but in previous discussions some have claimed such an a knock -on... (as it is in this video it is clear that the ball never goes forward off the hand)

    its usually lumped in with chips off the knee which get called forward, and even deliberate head buts (never seen one!) despite the clear possibility that the ball can be propelled backwards onto the knee or head. and as you've identified the totally accepted possible throw forward to kick normally..

    didds

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •