Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 45

Thread: You can't have two pods

      
  1. #1

    Referees in England
    Phil E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Staffordshire and Royal Navy
    Grade
    8
    Join Date
    22 Jan 08
    Posts
    14,333
    Thanks (Received)
    97
    Likes (Received)
    890
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default You can't have two pods

    Something I was told/shown the other day by a senior referee, and I am not sure I agree with it.
    Would welcome a discussion.

    The attackers in a lineout put up two pods.

    19.10(d) says:

    Lifting and supporting. Players may assist a team-mate in jumping for the ball by lifting
    and supporting that player providing that the lifting and/or supporting players do not
    support the jumping team-mate below the shorts from behind or below the thighs from the
    front.
    Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line


    The way it was explained was that you may only lift/assist a team-mate who is "jumping for the ball". Since you know where you are throwing the ball (which pod), they can't both be "jumping for the ball", one pod is a dummy and therefore NOT "jumping for the ball".

    Free Kick against the attackers.

    Thoughts?

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


  2. #2

    Referees in Canada


    Soc/Assoc
    .
    Join Date
    27 May 11
    Posts
    364
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    41

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Something I was told/shown the other day by a senior referee, and I am not sure I agree with it.
    Would welcome a discussion.

    The attackers in a lineout put up two pods.

    19.10(d) says:

    Lifting and supporting. Players may assist a team-mate in jumping for the ball by lifting
    and supporting that player providing that the lifting and/or supporting players do not
    support the jumping team-mate below the shorts from behind or below the thighs from the
    front.
    Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line


    The way it was explained was that you may only lift/assist a team-mate who is "jumping for the ball". Since you know where you are throwing the ball (which pod), they can't both be "jumping for the ball", one pod is a dummy and therefore NOT "jumping for the ball".

    Free Kick against the attackers.

    Thoughts?
    I have to strongly disagree with this. This interpretation is someone reading into the law way too deep. The spirit of this law is not meant to define who can or can't jump for the ball, because any player in the lineout has the right to jump. This law is to define how the lifters can lift the jumper. It would seem to be a safety issue so that you don't have lifters grabbing the jumper much lower on the leg therefore reducing the stability of the jumper. Imagine the lifters grabbing the jumper at the knee or calf - it would be unstable and dangerous.

    I'd hate to be a player, coach or spectator at a game reffed by someone who interprets the laws like this.

  3. #3

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    21,923
    Thanks (Received)
    86
    Likes (Received)
    1229

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    I hope Guyseep's view wins the day.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #4
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Prefer not to say
    Grade
    Retired
    Join Date
    10 Dec 15
    Posts
    1,541
    Thanks (Received)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    325

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    It sounds like he's looking for a reason to penalise and ignoring the spirit of the law. It's there, as Guyseep says, to define what lifters are allowed to do. If you were to say "PEEP! You can't both be jumping for the ball!" you're going to quickly erode the players' confidence in you.

    Maybe Phil could ask this senior referee about his views on a jumper going up and the ball being popped to the front man? Or indeed any non-jumping player. After all, the ball wasn't thrown to the jumping player, so he couldn't be jumping for the ball.

  5. #5

    Referees in America
    Not Kurt Weaver's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Ohio
    Grade
    C3
    Join Date
    11 Sep 08
    Posts
    1,734
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    76
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    That is absolute poppycock, but the law does say "a teammate" not "any teammate". "a teammate is singular"

  6. #6
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    NRB
    Grade
    IRB level 1
    Join Date
    13 Apr 15
    Posts
    548
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    112

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    "I'm jumping for the ball in case the front pod misses it, sir."

  7. #7

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    21,923
    Thanks (Received)
    86
    Likes (Received)
    1229

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kurt Weaver View Post
    That is absolute poppycock, but the law does say "a teammate" not "any teammate". "a teammate is singular"
    Apart from my standard objection to such a legalistic approach, I would point out that the phrase "a player" does not appear in the extract quoted.
    Last edited by OB..; 17-11-16 at 16:11.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #8

    Referees in England
    beckett50's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    East Midlands
    Grade
    Level 6
    Join Date
    31 Jan 04
    Posts
    2,137
    Thanks (Received)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    Urban myth #1019
    --------------------

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=691560798


    "Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf" Native American Proverb

    Vanillaisforicecream

  9. #9
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Prefer not to say
    Grade
    Retired
    Join Date
    10 Dec 15
    Posts
    1,541
    Thanks (Received)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    325

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kurt Weaver View Post
    That is absolute poppycock, but the law does say "a teammate" not "any teammate". "a teammate is singular"
    I interpret this as a single lifter cannot lift multiple jumpers.

    I used to play with a South African prop who, after a demonstration of how a jumper can have a single lifter, tried to be a middle lifter between two jumpers in a L-J-L-J-L formation. We abandoned the idea as not really worth it, but it was quite impressive.

  10. #10

    Referees in Canada


    Soc/Assoc
    .
    Join Date
    27 May 11
    Posts
    364
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    41

    Default Re: You can't have two pods

    This is an example of why I've frequently said Law 19 needs a major re-write. Here's another example of a dubious law

    (j) Catching or deflecting. When jumping for the ball, a player must use either both hands or the inside arm to try to catch or deflect the ball. The jumper must not use the outside arm alone to try to catch or deflect the ball. If the jumper has both hands above the head either hand may be used to play the ball.
    Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line


    I can't fathom a logical reason for disallowing someone to use their outside arm to catch/deflect the ball in a lineout.

    I can only imagine that if the ball is thrown as such that the outside arm is the closest to the ball (ie the throw is not straight), then there is already a law for that.

    or

    If the argument is that if the jumper uses their outside arm, they could/would use their inside arm to push/obstruct/interfere with the opposing jumper, then there is a law for that as well.

    Why is this law here?!
    Last edited by Guyseep; 17-11-16 at 17:11.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •