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Thread: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    IMO, in any situation where he can bind onto blue from an on-side position. If blue then falls off (assuming red 2 wasn't attempting to collapse the maul, or drag a player out) then he should have held on tighter!
    I see what you are saying, but blue player is trying to tackle red#1 (he could have done it better, but still trying...).
    Red#2 aims for blue player and pushes him away (he doesn't even touch his team-mate)

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    we can tie ourselves in knots on the niceties of the Law, but being practical I wonder if the best way to referee this is to say:

    what I saw was :
    - red arriving player attempts to bind onto blue which would create a maul (legal - he doesn't have to bind onto his team mate)
    - the proto-maul falls apart (which happens)
    - play on

    after all, in a maul it's perfectly legal to try and prise your opponents' arms away, freeing the ball and ball carrier.

  3. #33
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    we can tie ourselves in knots on the niceties of the Law, but being practical I wonder if the best way to referee this is to say:

    what I saw was :
    - red arriving player attempts to bind onto blue which would create a maul (legal - he doesn't have to bind onto his team mate)
    - the proto-maul falls apart (which happens)
    - play on

    after all, in a maul it's perfectly legal to try and prise your opponents' arms away, freeing the ball and ball carrier.
    If it's a clear push, I'd think there's only credibility to be lost by claiming you saw him trying to bind.

    10.4(f) - Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push or obstruct an opponent not carrying the ball.

    If there's no maul and no attempt to create one by binding, it's explicitly stated in the laws that it's foul play, PK.

    I'd not noticed before that the maul definition required the joining attacker to bind on to the ball carrier, though!

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by cccref View Post
    I see what you are saying, but blue player is trying to tackle red#1 (he could have done it better, but still trying...).
    Red#2 aims for blue player and pushes him away (he doesn't even touch his team-mate)
    I was referring to didds' question about the more general situation. From my understanding of your situation he didn't bind and entered from an offside position anyway, so PK for playing the man without the ball..

  5. #35

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    In ccref's diagram, it looks a bit more damning - if he plays blue first he'll be offside.
    How?

    there's no ruck, no maul, no tackle. Thus there is no offside, nor "gate" ?

    didds

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by cccref View Post
    or just tough doo-dah on blue meaning?
    shit happens, get on with life ;-) Next time bind harder!

    didds

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    How?

    there's no ruck, no maul, no tackle. Thus there is no offside, nor "gate" ?

    didds
    He's in front of a team mate carrying the ball.

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    IMO, in any situation where he can bind onto blue from an on-side position. If blue then falls off (assuming red 2 wasn't attempting to collapse the maul, or drag a player out) then he should have held on tighter!
    so red#2 would be fine binding onto blue and potentially driving hiom out/away you mean?

    If so, what would the real difference be between binding and just pushing - the net result is the same - and its safe?

    (for the avoidance of doubt I agree with DocY).



    didds

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    If it's a clear push, I'd think there's only credibility to be lost by claiming you saw him trying to bind.
    well, cccref describes it variously as a drag, and as a push, perhaps it wasn't so clear what it was exactly... it was probably a bit of both, and I could easily judge that to be a forming maul, that falls apart as it forms.

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    Default Re: Dragging away a player trying to tackle

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    so red#2 would be fine binding onto blue and potentially driving hiom out/away you mean?

    If so, what would the real difference be between binding and just pushing - the net result is the same - and its safe?

    (for the avoidance of doubt I agree with DocY).



    didds
    Depends how he did it. If whatever he did couldn't be considered pulling a player out of a maul, then fine.

    Not a lot of difference between the push and a bind, really - if he wasn't bound, but was pushing blue forward I'd try to manage it and remind him to bind properly. Pushing blue from the side, though? I'm thinking probably penalty - the same as if he bound on then tried to roll blue out of the maul.

    But I'd say that if it looks wrong, you can easily penalise for not binding if he's pushing without being bound.

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