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Thread: Early Engage

  1. #41
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Early Engage

    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRef View Post
    First as an old prop, but a new ref I can tell you that more times than not it's a pre-"crouch" spacing issue. If they have to engage early the front rows are spaced incorrectly before the call. (IMHO it could be either too clean she or too far apart..there is a sweet spot) Sometimes it is simply a height difference between the props that the hookers aren't used to. On the first instance of I'd blow it up and have them move in a little. If that doesn't work, have them space a little wider on the next instance.
    I don't think the part in red is the real problem. Front rows have been slow to adapt to the new engage sequence. Under CTPE the props set up in the 'power crouch' with the hooker putting on the brakes, so that they could get the 'hit'. Now, crouched ear to ear, as they reach for the bind they tend to just fall into the 'set'. For me the end result of 'stable & stationary' is really all that matters. if that is achieved then pass 'Go'.

    When props change so that at 'crouch' they have their outside foot well forward and shoot it back on 'set' then they won't fall into the engage.

  2. #42

    Referees in America
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    SimonSmith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Early Engage

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    A couple of weeks ago had a game where the scrums were not settling. Both teams, L8 had experienced front rows. After the usual, moans of watch his angle sir, can you watch the binding, they're going early, this one will be straight etc.
    Pulled all six out and said if you don't stop pissing about I'll find a free kick at every scrum and ruin your afternoon too.
    Amazingly they just got on with it
    This. I have deployed this kind of thing a lot, and now my reputation goes before me.

    "Right. Enough of this. Two front rows please. Right lads...."
    Hooker I have refereed umpteen times: "I know. Either we sort it out or you will, and your way involves whistles and cards."
    Looks around "He's not bluffing guys"

    And lo! how things improve. Admittedly this works better when you know the FR do know what they're meant to be doing. A couple of leagues down from my usual level and I could get blank stares.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
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    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  3. #43

    Referees in England

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    Default Re: Early Engage

    If you can't, or won't, scrummage properly we could have to go uncontested.
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
    (Groucho Marx)

  4. #44

    Referees in Scotland

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    Default Re: Early Engage

    I had some U18s this weekend where we had some instability before the ball put in because both teams were pushing, one was clearly pushing more as the scrum was wheeling and moving over the mark. After being penalised a couple of times the hooker and loosehead spoke to me at half time asking what to do, I suggested just no pushing, which they looked particularly non plussed at. Second half was generally better. I don;t think I'm being naive in saying it is as simple as just not pushing, my view is you can engage and keep a scrum square, stable and supported without pushing. Is this right?

  5. #45

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

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    Default Re: Early Engage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paule23 View Post
    my view is you can engage and keep a scrum square, stable and supported without pushing. Is this right?
    It requires both sides to apply the same amount of force, which is something they must work out for themselves in the first few scrums.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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