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Thread: Bouncing the ball off a foot

      
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    Default Bouncing the ball off a foot

    There was a thread a little while ago (which I can't find now) about whether bouncing the ball off the foot (where the foot is doesn't leave the ground) counts as a valid kick for the purposes of taking a PK/FK.

    It doesn't - WR have recently released the following clarification:


    Request
    Below is a link showing three players taking Penalty Kicks during the recent HSBC Sevens. They are doing so by dropping the ball onto their foot and then playing the ball:


    https://worldrugby.box.com/s/j02ul1d...i5dsg0t3t1lzz8


    KICK- Definition. Law Book Page 6 A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee .a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand or along the ground.


    Law 21.3 (a) How Penalty and Free Kicks are taken. Any player may take a penalty or free kick awarded for an infringement with any type of kick, punt, drop kick, or place kick. The ball may be kicked with any part of the lower leg from knee to the foot excluding the knee and the heel.


    Law 21.4 (d) A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a clear distance If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands, if it is on the ground it must clearly.
    Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
    The Designated Members have reviewed this request for clarification and the below are the relevant responses.


    Dropping the ball onto the foot does not constitute a correctly taken Penalty or free kick and Law 21.4 (d) must be complied with:
    21.4 (d)
    A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark
    Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    A little pedantic, but glad it has been clarified.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    2 and 3 didn't even seem to leave the hands so I would probably have brought them back. At least 1 did leave his hands, although it was not kicked.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    2 and 3 didn't even seem to leave the hands so I would probably have brought them back. At least 1 did leave his hands, although it was not kicked.
    This. 2&3 the ball did not leave the hands.

    In 1 it did. And I would let it go as a "kick" as foot and ball made contact, while not in contact with hands.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    This. 2&3 the ball did not leave the hands.

    In 1 it did. And I would let it go as a "kick" as foot and ball made contact, while not in contact with hands.
    The point of the ruling is that it shouldn't be let go, even if it does leave the player's hands.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    Quote Originally Posted by winchesterref View Post
    A little pedantic, but glad it has been clarified.
    I stopped thinking this was pendantic long ago:

    Reason 1: why do players do it? They must gain something, no?
    At that level particularly, the potential half a second it gives the attacker is the difference between defence looking at him or looking away. That is potentially the difference between a tackle and a try.

    Reason 2 (true story): 2nd row taking a quick tap and ball doesn't leave his hands. "Peep-peep, come back, do it properly please". 2nd row comes back, take the tap off his hands, fumbles and drops the ball. "Peep. Scrum please!"

    In my humble opinion what is pendantic is to order a scrum at the first occurrence. At the 2nd-3rd and depending on the game, maybe...

    My 2 cents,
    Pierre.
    Rule #1: If the law doesn't forbid it, it's allowed.
    Rule #2: If it ain't in the Law Book, don't make it up.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    Quote Originally Posted by talbazar View Post

    In my humble opinion what is pendantic is to order a scrum at the first occurrence. At the 2nd-3rd and depending on the game, maybe...

    My 2 cents,
    Pierre.
    A lot of refs think this.. Which is why so many players do it...

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    A lot of refs think this.. Which is why so many players do it...
    Depends on the level and, to some extent the situation, I think.

    The last time I saw it happen was in a ladies youth game where half the players had only started playing that season and I thought it unreasonable to expect them to know the technicality, so had them re-take it (and that actually cost them a try). For context, in the same match a player tried to punt a conversion.

    Any game where it's more than a bit of fun, though, I'd expect to award the scrum - excepting perhaps when it's done in the 75th minute by a team who are 50 points down.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    Drop kicking is skill the girls find difficult to pick up.
    I have seen a lot of U15 games where the ref has let them kick-off restart with a punt to get a game going.
    They may have let them get away with a punt for a conversion.

    Th drop kick is almost a rugby only skill.
    While it is still legal in American and Australian Football, it is almost never used.

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    Default Re: Bouncing the ball off a foot

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    This. 2&3 the ball did not leave the hands.

    In 1 it did. And I would let it go as a "kick" as foot and ball made contact, while not in contact with hands.
    And therefore 2 & 3 would not be defined as 'droppng'. SoWorld Rugby really do use a different interpretation of words to the rest of us.

    Although I would have let 1 go - as the ball left the hands - I am happy to be now told so specifically what is and is not allowed.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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