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Thread: Proliferation of cards

      
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    Default Proliferation of cards

    I don't have the data to back this up, but I'm sure the number of cards, particularly red ones, has exploded in the last 5 years.

    I'm sure that before 2011 the number of red cards in top-flight leagues (let alone internationals) was tiny - maybe 1-2 per season - and they were given for acts of thuggery. But since then, they've been introduced for 'technical' offences: tip tackles firstly, now contact in the air and high tackles.

    While these provide great talking points for forums such as this, it's putting referees right in the spotlight and under (in my perception) unfair pressure to issue cards, which is in turn leading to post-game discussion being far too regularly around refereeing decisions than actual play.

    Does anyone remember any other time when referees were put so firmly in the spotlight or any other similarly major law changes? I know they keep talking about safety, but it feels like WR are being extremely over-zealous to the detriment of the sport.

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    ......But since then, they've been introduced for 'technical' offences: tip tackles firstly, now contact in the air and high tackles.
    Tip tackles, high tackles and tackling in the air are not "Technical Offences".
    They are Foul Play.

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    I don't have the data to back this up, but I'm sure the number of cards, particularly red ones, has exploded in the last 5 years.

    I'm sure that before 2011 the number of red cards in top-flight leagues (let alone internationals) was tiny - maybe 1-2 per season - and they were given for acts of thuggery. But since then, they've been introduced for 'technical' offences: tip tackles firstly, now contact in the air and high tackles.

    While these provide great talking points for forums such as this, it's putting referees right in the spotlight and under (in my perception) unfair pressure to issue cards, which is in turn leading to post-game discussion being far too regularly around refereeing decisions than actual play.

    Does anyone remember any other time when referees were put so firmly in the spotlight or any other similarly major law changes? I know they keep talking about safety, but it feels like WR are being extremely over-zealous to the detriment of the sport.
    Litigation is currently ongoing (I believe) about a concussion incident in rugby, as well as NFL style suits popping up all over the shop. It would be to the detriment of the sport if WR was not taking steps to safeguard themselves and players.

    Players are bigger, faster, stronger and fitter than they have ever been. Their technique is as poor as I can remember it. Who needs to put their head to the side and wrap a 'ring of steel' when all they need to do is get a body in the way? Players travel upwards of 20km/h. The game has changed so that the hits that are happening are now are astonishingly forceful.

    A hooker has the average pressure on him of a car accident at every scrum. IRFU said that average G-force for international players was 11-21 Gs. South African Institute for Sport measured a tackle on Schalk Burger at 27 Gs, as was a tackle that Scott Williams put in on BOD. Put into context, fighter pilots take a force of 10 Gs when they are flying. In 2014 a physicist worked out that the force sustained in a rugby tackle would power an energy saving lightbulb for 3 minutes. How would you see this going if it contact with the head or neck? What about tipped upside down?

    The science behind the rugby tackle

    Which part of this is safe or sustainable?

    Players in the air are also not safe. They cannot adjust, but can be subject to 100kg running at 15/20/25/30 km/h through their legs/lower body, impacting upside down at speed with their own body weight going through their head. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the anatomy of a neck can work out that it's not designed for this. I do think that jumping players also need to take responsibility, but I see that coming in the future.

    WR have been rightly cautious for the safety and longevity of the players, their future health, the sport's ongoing evolution and of course to minimise the risk of further expensive lawsuits.

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    I don't have the data to back this up, but I'm sure the number of cards, particularly red ones, has exploded in the last 5 years.

    I'm sure that before 2011 the number of red cards in top-flight leagues (let alone internationals) was tiny - maybe 1-2 per season - and they were given for acts of thuggery. But since then, they've been introduced for 'technical' offences: tip tackles firstly, now contact in the air and high tackles.

    While these provide great talking points for forums such as this, it's putting referees right in the spotlight and under (in my perception) unfair pressure to issue cards, which is in turn leading to post-game discussion being far too regularly around refereeing decisions than actual play.

    Does anyone remember any other time when referees were put so firmly in the spotlight or any other similarly major law changes? I know they keep talking about safety, but it feels like WR are being extremely over-zealous to the detriment of the sport.
    If only organizing bodies like, say, the RFU, kept a catalogue of such things for you to peruse:
    http://www.englandrugby.com/governan...search/results

    And then you could make data driven statements.
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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    If only organizing bodies like, say, the RFU, kept a catalogue of such things for you to peruse:
    http://www.englandrugby.com/governance/discipline/judgments-document-search

    And then you could make data driven statements.
    Thanks Simon! So not the quick jump I expected, but an increase of ~50% in 10 years. A couple of interesting things, though: dangerous tackles are fairly consistent before and after 2011, but tip tackles are added on top of them afterwards, and more cases of playing the man in the air since the start of last season than in the previous 8 seasons.

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Tip tackles, high tackles and tackling in the air are not "Technical Offences".
    They are Foul Play.
    I don;t disagree, but would they all have been counted as foul play 50 years ago? I suspect that is where the concept of them being "technical" offenses is from.

    then again, I am undoubtedly wrong!

    didds

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I don;t disagree, but would they all have been counted as foul play 50 years ago? I suspect that is where the concept of them being "technical" offenses is from.

    then again, I am undoubtedly wrong!

    didds
    Undoubtedly some of them would, but not all of them. Remember how Jonny Wilkinson used to tackle?!

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    The cards will continue, until the players get the message and change their behavior.

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    The cards will continue, until the players get the message and change their behavior.
    I really don't think they will - the non-offending players will go looking for contrived offences.

    We're seeing this already with challenges in the air and we will see it with high tackles. The 'offending' player can easily be put in a position where they have no option but to offend to a card-worthy level.

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    Default Re: Proliferation of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    Undoubtedly some of them would, but not all of them. Remember how Jonny Wilkinson used to tackle?!
    JW didn't play 50 years ago though?

    50 years ago fly halves never tackled, full stop ;-)

    didds

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