View Poll Results: Bonus point, what do you think?

Voters
21. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it will be an improvement.

    8 38.10%
  • No, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

    13 61.90%
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 45

Thread: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

      
  1. #1

    Promises to Referee in France
    L'irlandais's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CT Alsace-Lorraine
    Grade
    EdR + LCA
    Join Date
    11 May 10
    Posts
    3,546
    Thanks (Received)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    135

    Question [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Hello, it's been a while since we've had a poll.

    Bonus point trial in this year's 6 nations
    Quote Originally Posted by RBS
    This system will be implemented on a trial basis in all three Championships in 2017 and will be reviewed post Championships.
    The BBC asks if it's a gimmick or overdue modernising?. What do you think?

    This ESPN article looks at some previous tournaments results, in light of the bonus point trial.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  2. #2

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    8,763
    Thanks (Received)
    42
    Likes (Received)
    725

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    *shrug*

    whatever.

    Do 6N sides really not try to score tries until the final second? Unless 30 points ahead so just kick it off the park?

    And what about the fans that actually now want to get to the pub instead of watching another 8 minutes of wide trench defense until somebody knocks on?



    didds

    - - - Updated - - -

    you need a 3rd option

    * I don't GAF

    didds

  3. #3

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    21,923
    Thanks (Received)
    86
    Likes (Received)
    1229

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Since Italy joined, there have been 153 home wins, 98 away wins, and 5 draws. The 6N is not a home-and-away competition, so each season there is a built-in advantage already, which would be increased by bonus points.

    It is essential that whatever system is used does not allow a Grand Slam winner to be beaten by their closest rival because of bonus points. In 2002 France won all 5 games (10 points) plus 1 try bonus for 11 points. England won 4 games (8 points) plus a losing bonus against France and 4 try bonuses from the other matches: total 13 points.

    The current points difference system is an incentive to beat Italy (usually seen as the weakest team) by as many as possible.

    There is a reasonable case for using bonus points as a tie-breaker.

    The main argument for bonus points is that it provides an incentive to a losing team, who might manage to salvage a point. A try bonus merely rewards a team who dominance is already represented in the number of points scored. (The occasional try fest might give both sides a try bonus - 4 times in 255 matches so far)
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #4

    Referees in New Zealand
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    12,807
    Thanks (Received)
    93
    Likes (Received)
    1255

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Six times in in the 17 seasons since Italy joined, teams that won the 6N did so by points difference, that is just over 1/3 of the time

    First team listed won 6N - next team(s) listed finished on the same table points

    2001 - England - Ireland
    2006 - France - Ireland
    2007 - France - Ireland *
    2013 - Wales - England
    2014 - Ireland - England
    2015 - Ireland - England - Wales

    * In 2007 the result might have changed. Ireland would have got two try bonus points and one close loss bonus point to France's single try bonus point and one close loss bonus point, so Ireland would probably have won the 6N in that year.

    I say "might" and "probably" because you cant just go back and add bonus points to rework results after the fact. Knowing that bonus points were needed, teams might have played differently, e.g. kicking for the corner late in the game rather than taking an easy three.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

  5. #5

    Referees in Holland


    Soc/Assoc
    NSRS
    Grade
    Newish
    Join Date
    20 Jan 11
    Posts
    1,299
    Thanks (Received)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    75

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    * I don't GAF
    IIRC there is a fudge factor for achieving the GS - oh it can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_S...s_Championship "Additionally, to ensure that a team winning all of its five matches (a Grand Slam) will also win the Championship, three bonus points will be awarded for this achievement.[1][2]"


    Three bonus points suffices because 5*4+3 > 4*5+2, where the two is the maximum number of points (for both bonuses) that a losing side can achieve.

  6. #6

    Promises to Referee in France
    L'irlandais's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CT Alsace-Lorraine
    Grade
    EdR + LCA
    Join Date
    11 May 10
    Posts
    3,546
    Thanks (Received)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    135

    Arrow Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post

    - - - Updated - - -

    you need a 3rd option

    * I don't GAF

    didds
    Not sure how to edit the poll to add that third option.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  7. #7
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Prefer not to say
    Grade
    Retired
    Join Date
    10 Dec 15
    Posts
    1,542
    Thanks (Received)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    328

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    I don't see what problem bonus points would solve.

    Yes, you get the odd boring match (e.g. Wales v France last year), but I'm not sure bonus points would improve that - and the year before you have Wales v Ireland: hugely exciting with one try and one penalty try.

    And look back to 'Super Saturday' two years ago. No bonus points, but so many tries scored it was farcical!

    Sure, England won with a round to spare last year, but that was down to Wales and Ireland drawing, and they'd still have won with a round to spare even with bonus points.

  8. #8

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    21,923
    Thanks (Received)
    86
    Likes (Received)
    1229

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Rushforth View Post
    Three bonus points suffices because 5*4+3 > 4*5+2, where the two is the maximum number of points (for both bonuses) that a losing side can achieve.
    Using the intended system, if a team wins a Grand Slam without getting any try bonuses, they will get 20 points plus the GS bonus = 23. The second team could get 4 * 4 points = 16, plus 5 try bonuses and one losing bonus =22. Hence the need for a 3 point GS bonus.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  9. #9

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    8,763
    Thanks (Received)
    42
    Likes (Received)
    725

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Using the intended system, if a team wins a Grand Slam without getting any try bonuses, they will get 20 points plus the GS bonus = 23. The second team could get 4 * 4 points = 16, plus 5 try bonuses and one losing bonus =22. Hence the need for a 3 point GS bonus.
    In a non GS year you could have team A win 4 games with no bonuses = 16 points. Another team winning 3 games and losing 2 of them could however pick up 3 try bonuses and 2 losing bonuses = 3*4 = 12 + 5 = 17.

    Did I understand that right? So it would be possible for a team winning only 3 matches to win the 6N and beating a team that won 4 matches ?

    didds

  10. #10
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Prefer not to say
    Grade
    Retired
    Join Date
    10 Dec 15
    Posts
    1,542
    Thanks (Received)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    328

    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    In a non GS year you could have team A win 4 games with no bonuses = 16 points. Another team winning 3 games and losing 2 of them could however pick up 3 try bonuses and 2 losing bonuses = 3*4 = 12 + 5 = 17.

    Did I understand that right? So it would be possible for a team winning only 3 matches to win the 6N and beating a team that won 4 matches ?

    didds
    Yep, that's my understanding, too.

    There might be benefit in using them as a tie breaker (as OB suggests), but it can result in 'interesting' outcomes if used as stated.

    What you don't really want is a team losing on the last weekend, but still winning the trophy, and bonus points will make this more likely.

    E.g. if Ireland need to score four tries and beat England by more than 7 on the last weekend (and stop England scoring 4 tries, not a terribly unlikely situation) and they win comfortably, but only score three tries, who's going to be satisfied with the results?

    I realise you can get this situation at the moment, but the only factor is points difference. When you add in other ways for the loser to win the competition, you increase the likelihood of it happening.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •