View Poll Results: Bonus point, what do you think?

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  • Yes, it will be an improvement.

    8 38.10%
  • No, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

    13 61.90%
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Thread: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    I have a vague recollection of something odd like this in the first year of bonus points in competiton in the UK, being the Welsh premier league as was based around club sides; my vague recollection from 20 years ago was that the team that finished second had won more games than the team that came first. Googling however suggests this was 1996/97, won by pontypridd but the team that came second was way below them in terms of games won so I'm not sure what I am recollecting now!

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  2. #12
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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I have a vague recollection of something odd like this in the first year of bonus points in competiton in the UK, being the Welsh premier league as was based around club sides; my vague recollection from 20 years ago was that the team that finished second had won more games than the team that came first. Googling however suggests this was 1996/97, won by pontypridd but the team that came second was way below them in terms of games won so I'm not sure what I am recollecting now!

    didds
    IIRC the Welsh premiership didn't introduce bonus points before regional rugby took over, but it's certainly happened in the English premiership. Less of an impact when you have end of season playoffs, though (which I'm also not a fan of).

    Perhaps the points should be re-jigged so you get 8 for a win, so bonus points would likely only come into question in the event of a tie.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    Yep, that's my understanding, too.

    .

    Hmmm... so do we think the average supporter would accept that situation I described above in #9?

    Cos I don't!

    I remember the fallout of Wasps winning the English title from finishing in IIRC 6th place in the table and Glaws missing out having finished top of the log by some considerable distance. Even though top of the log purely meant an easier path to the premiership final.

    In short that playoff system reduced the league to a qualifying competition - but that wasn't being fully appreciated. In a similar vein bonus points in a very limited competition like the 6N reduces it to a competition that rewards tries scored over actual results

    didds

  4. #14

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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    IIRC the Welsh premiership didn't introduce bonus points before regional rugby took over
    ah - it was before it was called the premiership I thin - apolgies, my confusion.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.sport.rugby.union/1996$2F97$20welsh$20league%7Csort:relevance/rec.sport.rugby.union/1AQoaTZwXXk/Alawk6zHQasJ

    Unless that was a revamped bonus point system and there was an older one? One of the posters in that usenet tyhread mentions something about an old bonus points system?

    didds

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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    ah - it was before it was called the premiership I thin - apolgies, my confusion.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.sport.rugby.union/1996$2F97$20welsh$20league%7Csort:relevance/rec.sport.rugby.union/1AQoaTZwXXk/Alawk6zHQasJ

    Unless that was a revamped bonus point system and there was an older one? One of the posters in that usenet tyhread mentions something about an old bonus points system?

    didds
    My bad - that's the era I was thinking of when I referred to the premiership. No memory of the bonus points, though!

  6. #16

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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    I find it interesting that encouraging try scoring is seen as one benefit of the bonus point system.
    Yet this short study of one of last year's EPCR pools suggests that that just isn't so. Surely points difference must be taken into consideration?
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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    I find it interesting that encouraging try scoring is seen as one benefit of the bonus point system.
    Yet this short study of one of last year's EPCR pools suggests that that just isn't so. Surely points difference must be taken into consideration?
    Yes, that was a strange one - it also shows bonus points not helping give a clear winner!

    Does anyone know of any trials done with different bonus point systems? All I'm aware of (other than the 'old system' didds mentions above - and I don't know about that) is the Super 12 having 4-try and losing-by-7 bonus points and that same system being copied everywhere else, until it's possibly changing to a 4-try difference this year.

    It seems strange that no other systems have been tried.

  8. #18

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    Post Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    The French Top 14 And ProD2 is slightly different
    French system awards points in this manner: 4 points for a win. 2 points for a draw. 1 "bonus" point for winning while scoring at least 3 more tries than the opponent. 1 "bonus" point for losing by no more than a 5 point margin.
    So à try fest of say 5 tries To 6, then neither team would be awarded a try bonus, nor a Loosing bonus.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 23-01-17 at 16:01.
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  9. #19

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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    My understanding is that the bonus point system is an attempt to encourage more try scoring. If this is the case perhaps we should take this down to a more base level and simply get the 6 Ns to pay for tries!

    I don’t know what the winning team gets for winning the 6Ns apart from a trophy but I know the players tend to get a financial bonus from their country. Perhaps a very simple points system for the ‘league’ would suffice and the winning team would get the trophy and the honour of winning. To encourage more tries the 6Ns could pay each country per try which in turn would go to the players in the squad on the day. At the end of the tournament the country scoring the most tries would earn (win) a bonus which would be split between the whole squad. (And coaches to encourage them as well)

    If the result of the game towards the end is in no doubt then teams would be encouraged to go for the extra money. Of course the downside to this is that we could then have some devious players agreeing amongst themselves to score five tries apiece in the last ten minutes to earn their ‘bonus’.

    Where is the tongue in cheek icon?

  10. #20

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    Default Re: [RBS 6 Nations] Bonus point trial in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    What you don't really want is a team losing on the last weekend, but still winning the trophy.
    Wales achieved that in 1994 which was IIRC the first year an actual trophy was presented. They lost 15-8 to England at Twickenham, but England needed to beat them by 16 to lift the trophy themselves. It must have been a little embarrassing to receive the trophy immediately after the match under those circumstances!
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