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Thread: new touch laws

      
  1. #1

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    Default new touch laws

    OK. So we have the new touch law that allows a player (let's say Blue) to dive from FoP into touch and knock the ball into FoP after being kicked (let's say by Red) & before it (the ball) hits the ground.

    Questions:
    1. what if, as he is attempting to knock the ball back into FoP, he knocks it forward, into FoP. Scrum Red?
    2. what if, as he is attempting to knock the ball back into FoP, he knocks it forward, but its stays in touch. Scrum for knock on or lineout (whose throw)?
    3. what if he knocks it backwards, but before it crosses plane of touch back into FoP it is intercepted & caught by a Blue team mate who is in touch. Lineout but whose throw?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Good work, Dickie E!

    1. Yes. If no advantage played scrum Red where ball lands in FOP. The ball is not in touch as it never landed in touch.

    2. Tricky one. two lines of thought: a. Scrum/lineout option to Red as the ball is not in touch until it lands in touch, last played and knocked on by Blue or b. Lineout Blue as ball crossed the plane of touch and lands in touch put there by Red and KO not rel.

    3. Tricky one. a. Blue lineout if you apply the plane-of-touch then the ball was played into touch by Red or b. Lineout Red as ball last played by Blue before it hit player in touch.

    Me? I HATE the stinking plane of touch! So I'd rather consider the ball in play until it hits/lands in touch. So if you dive to save the ball from touch you'd better get it back into the FOP or you'll charged with putting it into touch.

    But that isn't the way it will be ruled in the new laws.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    OK. So we have the new touch law that allows a player (let's say Blue) to dive from FoP into touch and knock the ball into FoP after being kicked (let's say by Red) & before it (the ball) hits the ground.

    Questions:
    1. what if, as he is attempting to knock the ball back into FoP, he knocks it forward, into FoP. Scrum Red?
    2. what if, as he is attempting to knock the ball back into FoP, he knocks it forward, but its stays in touch. Scrum for knock on or lineout (whose throw)?
    3. what if he knocks it backwards, but before it crosses plane of touch back into FoP it is intercepted & caught by a Blue team mate who is in touch. Lineout but whose throw?
    Oh boy!!

    1. Yes
    2. Line out Red - assuming the ball has crossed the plane of touch
    3. Yes, Red throw.

    IMO
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    Default Re: new touch laws

    For 1. i think Red scrum is correct

    For 2. and 3. I guess the saving grace is that the dive and tap strategy really only makes sense when Red have a penalty kick for touch (in general play the Blue player may as well take the safer option and catch the ball and take a quick throw). So for a Red penalty, it is always going to be Red's throw into the lineout anyway.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  5. #5

    Advises in England
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    Default Re: new touch laws

    1. The ball is not in touch. Law 12 is not restricted to the playing area - scrum Red.

    2. [LAWS]If a player jumps from the playing area and knocks the ball back into the playing area (or if that player catches the ball and throws it back into the playing area) before landing in touch or touch-in-goal, play continues regardless of whether the ball reaches the plane of touch.[/LAWS]
    Surely this can only mean that the ball is now in touch. The last person to touch it was Blue. Since it was knocked forward into touch, Red have a choice of lineout or scrum.

    3. Whether it was caught by a team mate in touch or simply landed in touch does not matter - the ball is in touch in both cases. Last played by Blue, therefore Red lineout.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post

    3. Whether it was caught by a team mate in touch or simply landed in touch does not matter - the ball is in touch in both cases. Last played by Blue, therefore Red lineout.
    But we have this from WR:
    If the ball has reached the plane of touch when it is caught, then the catcher is not deemed to have taken the ball into touch.


    Is it not reasonable to infer from this that once ball crosses PoT then Blue cannot have taken ball into touch?


    Tell me, if a player reaches over touchline to catch a kick that has crossed plane of touch, and only manages to touch the ball and not catch it ... who has put ball into touch?
    Last edited by Dickie E; 04-03-17 at 22:03.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Yesterday that would have been the player who attempted the catch. Today it would be the kicker.

  8. #8

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    so it appears that we may have this situation. Ball kicked through plane of touch by Red then:

    1. Blue player leans over touchline and gets fingertip to ball. Restart: Blue lineout

    2. Blue player dives over touchline and gets fingertip to ball. Restart: Red lineout.

    Quite odd.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #9
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    2. [LAWS]If a player jumps from the playing area and knocks the ball back into the playing area (or if that player catches the ball and throws it back into the playing area) before landing in touch or touch-in-goal, play continues regardless of whether the ball reaches the plane of touch.[/LAWS]
    Surely this can only mean that the ball is now in touch. The last person to touch it was Blue. Since it was knocked forward into touch, Red have a choice of lineout or scrum.
    If the ball does not return to the playing area, the "If" statement is not activated. Touch is not part of the playing area, so the ball hasn't returned there. In which case, the blue clause can only apply to the flight outwards, surely? It's a very confusing addition.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    If the ball does not return to the playing area, the "If" statement is not activated. Touch is not part of the playing area, so the ball hasn't returned there. In which case, the blue clause can only apply to the flight outwards, surely? It's a very confusing addition.
    For the ball to be "knocked back into" the playing area, it had to have left it initially. However if that happens, then the final phrase "regardless of whether the ball reaches the plane of touch" is pointless. My original assumnption was therefore that the writer should have put "knocks the ball back towards the playing area".

    On reflection I now think it makes more sense to assume it is the final phrase that is misleading. It should have read "regardless of whether the ball had crossed the plane of touch."
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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