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Thread: new touch laws

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Can't we just simplify our thinking and:

    It is a two step consideration;


    1. A player not in touch (by contact with the line or foot in contact outside) can only be the field of play, (Covers DB line/IG as well)
    2. Until the ball is in touch by contact or in touch as a result of possession by someone in in touch (incorporates new catcher in possession clarification), it is in play.



    Yes this does mean that a person standing out side the line of touch can from outside in to keep/knock an arial bll in. But what harm that as he is keepng the ball in play (which is what they wanted) and the vertical plane isn't relevant and hence, whether the the ball is moving or not, is also not relevant.

    I am trying to be positive and see how the laws are right and the clarification is wrong because the original question was irrelevant and induced an answer that has caused some clear law contradictions around about a stationary vs moving in a separate law.

    In touch is in touch. Assess who put it there, then consider if if was inside the vercial or outside FoP if it was catch so as to determine the restart.

    Note a moving ball is irrelevant as a kick to touch that bunces before is not covered

    Defender, "Step into touch at your peril. If you choose to keep the ball in play (law makers objective on this) and you succeed we commend you!

    The only question then for me is then a kick thorough by the attacker. If the ball falls stationary even though he was hoping to keep it in play and a defender is able to have his foot in touch and pick it up. He gets possession. It then becomes an exception (doesn't increase the opportunities to keep the ball in play) but it's not against the laws. The laws will never be perfect in all respects but the amendments have generally increased the opportunities of ball remaining in open play.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: new touch laws

    [QUOTE=ChrisR;327734]Good work, Dickie E!.......




    ........Me? I HATE the stinking plane of touch! So I'd rather consider the ball in play until it hits/lands in touch. So if you dive to save the ball from touch you'd better get it back into the FOP or you'll charged with putting it into touch.

    [QUOTE]

    ....Exactly and even though the amendment added the vertical plane hassle that's what the amendment achieved up until the point someone asked a wrong (irrelevant question)! The Right answer would have been. "No.( and the thought why did you even ask?)."

    I have mentioned this in more detail another thread.
    Last edited by ChuckieB; 06-03-17 at 16:03.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: new touch laws

    I am trying to get my head round these amendments.

    There are some example videos here:-
    http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=20

    The second video on law 19 is the one that jumps out for me. A player standing with both feet in touch catches a ball from a kick but because the ball never reaches the plane of touch, the catcher is deemed to have taken it in. That seems really counter intuitive and v hard to spot at grass roots level?

  4. #14

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_A View Post
    I am trying to get my head round these amendments.

    There are some example videos here:-
    http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=20

    The second video on law 19 is the one that jumps out for me. A player standing with both feet in touch catches a ball from a kick but because the ball never reaches the plane of touch, the catcher is deemed to have taken it in. That seems really counter intuitive and v hard to spot at grass roots level?

    As far as coaching goes. Catch it well in touch, or just don't catch it at all if you want the lineout.
    The idea (I think) is that if the ball is still in play (hasn't reached the plane) don't try and be clever, we want play to continue.

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    I get that. But surely in the example given by Dan_A, it would be better to keep the game flowing if the catcher was able to then take a QTI with it, rather than let the ball bounce and roll away 20+m, to retrieve it, go through the farce of will-I-won't-I as kicking team players chase him up and down the touchline and then it ends in a lineout, which potentially isn't defended in the air and is OTT so ends up in the hands of the team that COULD have caught it and QTI'd.

    Worst case scenario "as was" is that its a lineout to the catching team. And we get a lineout.

    The "keep the game flowing" thing is surely just a smokecreen. it doesn't really stack up.

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 01-09-17 at 10:09.

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    If he catches the ball in the field of play, or jumps and catches the ball and lands in the field of play, then we can play on.

    What we don't want is a player stretching a leg into touch and catching the ball 2 or 3 feet inside the field of play...then getting a lineout. We want him to catch the ball and keep playing.

    To be honest the example videos World Rugby have chosen aren't the best in many cases.

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    What we don't want is a player stretching a leg into touch and catching the ball 2 or 3 feet inside the field of play...then getting a lineout.
    Ironically that was exactly what the IRB wanted when they introduced that variation. It was intended to stop the kick-fests that were proliferating. Kickers would try to bounce the ball just inside the touchline so as to get a gain in ground. The change forced kickers to try and land the ball significantly further infield.
    We want him to catch the ball and keep playing.
    Yes, but I hope we are not going to go round in circles on this one.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I get that. But surely in the example given by Dan_A, it would be better to keep the game flowing if the catcher was able to then take a QTI with it
    Umm... he can catch it and play on, which has the advantages of a QTI and none of the restrictions. The only time that's a disadvantage is if the chasing team has the skills/abilities to put him under pressure - if that's the case, he can step into touch for safety, but why penalise them by giving him the throw-in?

  9. #19
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    If he catches the ball in the field of play, or jumps and catches the ball and lands in the field of play, then we can play on.

    What we don't want is a player stretching a leg into touch and catching the ball 2 or 3 feet inside the field of play...then getting a lineout. We want him to catch the ball and keep playing.

    To be honest the example videos World Rugby have chosen aren't the best in many cases.
    Who's "we", kemo-sabe? I preferred that a player could put a foot in touch and have the ball deemed 'kicked out'. Brought some smarts to the game and rarely happened.

    When the ball comes in contact with an object or player that is in touch then the ball is in touch. Previously you just had to watch the catchers feet. Now you have to apply the invisible 'plane of touch'.

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    Default Re: new touch laws

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    When the ball comes in contact with an object or player that is in touch then the ball is in touch.
    Really?
    A player in touch may kick or knock the ball , but not hold it....



    Previously you just had to watch the catchers feet. Now you have to apply the invisible 'plane of touch'.
    You always had to watch the plane.
    ....provided it has not crossed the plane of the touchline. The plane of the touchline is the vertical space rising immediately above the touchline.

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