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Thread: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Lifeson-Peart View Post
    Am I missing something?

    I think the only thing you are missing LLP is the scenario in the OP whereby an attacker CARRYING the ball manages to stick a hoof on or over Ti-G or DBL." probably when the ball is bouncing rather than laid on the ground cos for the latter then surely you'd just fall on it from the waist upwards! (as indeed I did manage to do once in my less than illustrious playing career... well aside form the first ever englishman to score a 5 point try but that was a flopper!)

    didds

    didds

  2. #22

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrouchTPEngage View Post
    Christy,

    My (new) interpretation of law 22.3(b) makes me think the correct answer to my OP is 22 m D.O.
    However I dont follow your reasoning at all. Normally it DOES matter who took the ball into the in-goal.
    That's why I thought I;d post this little oddity as it confounds intuition.
    hi crouch .
    it only matters who took it into in goal
    if a DEFENDER touches down in goal . or makes ball dead by kicking out / simillar .

    this is why the only exception to a scrum
    is if a charge down goes out if kicked in goal only ,,if taken back by defending team .

  3. #23

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy View Post
    this is why the only exception to a scrum
    is if a charge down goes out if kicked in goal only ,,if taken back by defending team .
    ??

    If you mean defense take it in-goal, kick and its charged down IN GOAL by an attacker and the ball goes dead, its still a 5m attacking scrum

    didds

  4. #24

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    ??

    If you mean defense take it in-goal, kick and its charged down IN GOAL by an attacker and the ball goes dead, its still a 5m attacking scrum

    didds
    hi didds
    yes you explained it better than me .

    some are not reading , the original #1 post correctly .
    clearly states , the attacking player him self has made ball dead as his foot went out of play in touch in goal .
    whilst trying to score a try .
    that is why for me , its a 22 drop out . { for that scenario }

  5. #25
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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy View Post
    hi didds
    yes you explained it better than me .

    some are not reading , the original #1 post correctly .
    clearly states , the attacking player him self has made ball dead as his foot went out of play in touch in goal .
    whilst trying to score a try .
    that is why for me , its a 22 drop out . { for that scenario }
    Christy,
    Just wondering. How do you reason that from law 22.11(b). Are you simply saying this law doesnt apply ?
    When a player carrying the ball touches the touch-in-goal line, the dead ball line, or touches the ground beyond those lines, the ball becomes dead. If the ball was carried into in-goal by the attacking team, a drop-out shall be awarded to the defending team. If the ball was carried into in-goal by the defending team, a 5-metre scrum shall be awarded and the attacking team throws in the ball.


    and case of "carrying" being "played", law 22.11(a) states
    When the ball touches the touch-in-goal line or the dead ball line, or touches anything or anyone beyond those lines, the ball becomes dead. If the ball was played into in-goal by the attacking team, a drop-out shall be awarded to the defending team. If the ball was played into in-goal by the defending team, a 5-metre scrum shall be awarded and the attacking team throws in the ball
    Last edited by CrouchTPEngage; 06-03-17 at 18:03.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    22.3
    (a)Try. When an attacking player who is onside is first to ground the ball in the opponents’ in-goal, the player scores a try. This applies whether an attacking or a defending player is responsible for the ball being in the in-goal.
    (b)When an attacking player who has possession of the ball grounds the ball in in-goal and simultaneously contacts the touch-in-goal line or the dead-ball-line (or anywhere beyond), a 22m drop-out is awarded to the defending team.


    (a) specifies that if an attacker scores (legally) it does not matter who put the ball into in-goal. I'm sure we all thought that was obvious, but it probably does need stating somewhere.

    The point of (b) seems to me to be that if the attacker simultaneously puts himself out of play, he cannot score. Adding the final phrase is unnecessary since the situation is then covered by 22.11 Adding something that conflicts with 22.11 is daft.

    If the provision was sensible, I would argue that the specific over-rides the general. But it doesn't make sense.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  7. #27

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy View Post
    hi didds
    yes you explained it better than me .

    some are not reading , the original #1 post correctly .
    clearly states , the attacking player him self has made ball dead as his foot went out of play in touch in goal .
    whilst trying to score a try .
    that is why for me , its a 22 drop out . { for that scenario }
    except its not.

    blue put it in-goal. the ball has been made dead. 5m attacking scrum

    didds

  8. #28
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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    except its not.

    blue put it in-goal. the ball has been made dead. 5m attacking scrum

    didds
    Well, apart from the quoted law that says it's a 22... however contradictory.

  9. #29

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    ... If you mean defense take it in-goal, kick and its charged down IN GOAL by an attacker and the ball goes dead, its still a 5m attacking scrum.
    That's exactly what happened in my case; the ball was passed back into in-goal and didn't make it out. Ie it was charged down (and went dead) while in-goal.

  10. #30

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    Default Re: 22 or 5m attacking scrum ?

    Ok . Heres my views ,,
    In original post , the attacking player whilst grounding ball in goal , has put a foot in touch in goal .
    For me still a 22 re start .

    But i must be honest same scenario that deffender played ball into in goal , i was also offering a 22 if for example attacker who ripped ball is still on his feet , in side in goal , and lets say he was now grabbed & manouvered by deffending player over dead ball line .
    I would of offered a 22 only .

    Im being persuaded here by others through law guidance .
    That this is also a 5 meter scrum attacking ball .

    Although i cant back up 22 in law , it seems not right .
    But im prepaired to learn & move on .

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