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Thread: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    what the OP wanted was a Law Reference to support that.
    but like so many things there isn't really one, and it's more of a convention than a specific Law

    And here it is

    17.2 JOINING A MAUL
    (b) A player must be caught in or bound to the maul and not just alongside it.
    Sanction: Penalty kick
    (c) Placing a hand on another player in the maul does not constitute binding.
    Sanction: Penalty kick



    And for reference

    Binding: Grasping firmly another player’s body between the shoulders and the hips with
    the whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.


    I challenge any rugby player to "swim" around the side of the maul while maintaing a bind according to the LotG General Definition of binding.... no "slipping" allowed (if you're slipping, there you're not "grasping firmly").

    Contortionists and/or amazing rubber men from Ringling Brothers don't count!!!!
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 16-03-17 at 09:03.
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    A player could single-double-single bind around a maul as described and comply with the letter of the law, but would be clearly violating the spirit of the law and should be penalised.

    Why do you ask, out of interest? Someone give you a hard time for penalising it?

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    I think it would generally speaking be possible to achieve a totally legal "swim", but you;d have to be very very precise while doing it which may well undermine its effectiveness as to getting where you need to be in a timeframe that works. You may be better off just blinking pushing!

    didds

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    Thanks for the answers. I agree it might require some advanced circus skills to achieve, but then I have seen players (and coaches) that will try and achieve the impossible. It does seem to be something that is legally possible (all the joining and binding) but we all know it is 'wrong'.

    That grey area between being bound (tightly clenched fist) onto a shirt with your arm in full contact and sliding; versus slipping with all in contact but no precise grip...

    I have not (yet) experienced this in a game situation. I am just reading through the laws as I my latest job role involves 2 hours on a train every day.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    From the definitions.

    Binding: Grasping firmly another player’s body between the shoulders and the hips with the whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.

    I reckon only a contortionist could legally do what you suggest.
    How many players conform to this when joining ruck or maul? Or even back of the scrum?

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigib View Post
    How many players conform to this when joining ruck or maul? Or even back of the scrum?
    I reckon most make a good fist of it. I mean, we don't see many players shoulder-charging into a ruck or maul, and when they do, they usually get pulled up for it.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigib View Post
    How many players conform to this when joining ruck or maul? Or even back of the scrum?
    I'd be really concerned if you were allowing other players to join the back of a scrum at all!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    I reckon most make a good fist of it. I mean, we don't see many players shoulder-charging into a ruck or maul, and when they do, they usually get pulled up for it.
    I agree, and when they don't, it usually isn't material, but swimming around the side of a maul would be, because their failure to bind legally is giving them a material advantage.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    I was more inclined to allow 'semi disguised swimming' as virtually the only way to counteract the ball carrier repeatedly being squeezed backwards by teammates to a perm-position on the rear of a maul. [don't get me started on those joiners beyond the ball!]

    In my mind it made the maul too far in the attacking teams favour & wasn't a equitable contest.

    thankfully sanctioning that technique has largely eradicated it, although i did see ireland do it unpunished v italy.

    i'm tougher on C&O bindings now, mauls are much better more equitable [& more fun] IME.

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    Usually I'm on the side of allowing things that are not specifically prohibited by Law. This is an exception as I see no positive aspect to it.

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Where in the laws is Fringing around a maul outlawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Specifically covered in ARU GMGs:

    Players bound on the side of the maul may not ‘slide’ forward or ‘swim’ around the maul. These players are not remaining bound and are not caught up in the maul, and are therefore offside.
    precactly! and luckily 'slide' and 'swim' are well defined in that document too.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

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