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Thread: Receiver position at LO.

      
  1. #41
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    Decorily: "In which case I would ask you which law?"

    Start with Definitions between sections 19.7 & 19.8 of Lineout law:

    Players taking part in the lineout known as participating players. Players taking part in the lineout are the player who throws-in and an immediate
    opponent , the two players waiting to receive the ball from the lineout and the lineout players.


    All other players. All other players who are not taking part in the lineout must be at least 10 metres behind the line of touch , on or behind their goal line if that is
    nearer , until the lineout ends.


    Now you have the context for the applicable law:

    19.15 Offside when not taking part in a lineout.
    (a) A player who is not taking part in the lineout is offside if that player oversteps the offside line before the lineout has ended.


    Law 19.9(b) will define when a lineout ends.
    Last edited by ChrisR; 28-05-17 at 11:05.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    Lineout is not over when player moves forward .
    In that case he is offside. If he starts behind the 10m offside line, how is the referee to know he is the Receiver and not just one of the "other players"?
    If he starts behind the 10m offside line, he is not a Receiver.


    Which law is he breaching?
    19.8(i)

    What is the position of a receiver?
    DEFINITIONS paragraph 3 and 19.8(i)

    But I know why you asked those questions so I know you have already checked the Law references.
    The Laws state that the Receiver must stand a minimum of 2m back from his team mates in the lineout and "is the player in position to catch the ball when lineout players pass or knock the ball back from the lineout".
    Being 10m back is not in a position to catch a ball that is passed or knocked by a jumper.
    So I refer back to my question about a 5m lineout. Is it not reasonable for a receiver to stand on the goal line, in line with non participating players, given that this places him only 4m approx from the line of players forming the lineout.
    Based on the preceding argument he would be offside and penalisable if he took a step forward to receive the ball. (Before the LO is over)

  3. #43

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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    So which player is your receiver and how is the referee to determine which player can step forward without sanction.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    So which player is your receiver and how is the referee to determine which player can step forward without sanction.
    "Sir....I'm receiver" and stands in line with non participants.

    Now can he come forward?

  5. #45
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    And the extension of this logic is to apply that to where a player starts beyond 10m from line-of-touch after declaring himself as the 'receiver'. And now he is clearly violating law.

    I would suggest that for those lineouts within 10m of goal the declared receiver must be in the field-of-play otherwise he is not 'participating in the lineout' and can't be a receiver.

  6. #46

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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    "Sir....I'm receiver" and stands in line with non participants.

    Now can he come forward?
    Is he in a position to catch a ball that is passed or knocked from the lineout?
    What is the advantage of having him start behind the goal line and then move forward just before the ball leaves the lineout and likewise, what is the advantage/tactics of the "receiver" in the OP of standing 10m back and moving forward just before the ball leaves the lineout. In both instances he is basically saying to the referee, "With all of the other things you are having to look at during the lineout, I'm going to make life just a little harder for you by using a strange tactic".
    I know how most referees react to players they think are being smart arses.

    This is a "going nowhere thread". Some will argue the receiver needs to be clearly identifiable by the referee whilst you are going to argue that because the Laws don't specifically nominate a maximum distance the receiver can stand from the lineout that technically, he could stand 2, 5, 10, 15 or 20m back.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    Is he in a position to catch a ball that is passed or knocked from the lineout?

    My response.....Yes..

    What is the advantage of having him start behind the goal line and then move forward just before the ball leaves the lineout and likewise, what is the advantage/tactics of the "receiver" in the OP of standing 10m back and moving forward just before the ball leaves the lineout. In both instances he is basically saying to the referee, "With all of the other things you are having to look at during the lineout, I'm going to make life just a little harder for you by using a strange tactic".

    My response.......Probably no advantage whatsoever.
    In the original scenario I think it was a genuine mix up. Reduced numbers in LO and the 'receiver ' only realised at the last moment that he wasn't where he was supposed to be.
    This was part of my reasoning for calling play on. He had in fact put himself under undue pressure by moving late to a position which he was entitled to be in in the first place.

    I know how most referees react to players they think are being smart arses.

    My response. .....Idon't like smart arses myself!

    Some will argue the receiver needs to be clearly identifiable by the referee whilst you are going to argue that because the Laws don't specifically nominate a maximum distance the receiver can stand from the lineout that technically, he could stand 2, 5, 10, 15 or 20m back.
    .....
    Last edited by Decorily; 28-05-17 at 17:05. Reason: Clarity

  8. #48

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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    So I refer back to my question about a 5m lineout. Is it not reasonable for a receiver to stand on the goal line, in line with non participating players, given that this places him only 4m approx from the line of players forming the lineout.
    Based on the preceding argument he would be offside and penalisable if he took a step forward to receive the ball. (Before the LO is over)
    If he stepped forward before the lineout was over then yes he is offside and can be penalised. But he would not be offside if the jumper palmed, knocked the ball towards the receiver, or even passed the ball towards the try line because the lineout is then over.In such circumstances ANY player could come forward to get the ball because the lineout is over. The 10M distance makes it impossible for this to be allowed unless 'from the top' means that the ball is knocked or passed very forcibly towards the 10M line and the players behind the 10M line have time to get to the ball. So back to the original post. Where exactly did the receiver receive the ball? If it was merely tapped down from the top then it would have been impossible for the receiver to have got there in time. Even for Mr Bolt. And probably definitely impossible for him because he isn't the fastest out of the blocks at the best of times.

  9. #49

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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Had a game recently where at a LO the throwing in side had no apparent receiver ie no player standing in usual position. After the ball was won in the air a player who was standing in the back line between the 5m and 15m lines ran forward and took the ball off the top. It was immediately questioned by oppo calling for off side. I called play on.

    Was I correct?
    What do you mean by "won in the air"? Caught? If the lineout player is still in possession when the non-participant runs forward then he is offside.

  10. #50

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    Default Re: Receiver position at LO.

    My 2p (and FTR I agree wholeheartedly with OB and Balones).

    if there is no receiver when the ball leaves the throwers hands then there is unequivocally no receiver. Anybody running in before the ball has left the lineout whatever the alignment of the backline is offside.

    I can't think of a genuine tactical reason to leave a receiver out on your own throw. So that leaves cock-ups of a huge magnitude.
    See OB's post.

    didds

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