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Thread: Sneaky QTI

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    True. And how sad it is that it is true. In the North we tend to coach all the ideas out of players and end up with robots. Often the SH label the nor as lumbering boring players and yet, at the grassroots, we have plenty of flair. Flair just waiting for a "good" coahc to remove on the way to the top.
    There are two gratifying things about watching Scotland now.

    1. They work SO hard for each other and the shirt. That's important to me. And they work as a team. Vern Cotter has done an amazing job and deserves every bit of praise he gets.
    2. The midfield play with flair and creativity. It's good that Toonie is in charge now, because Russell is like a V2. I actually enjoyed watching them against Australia and Italy, and thought that some of the hands and ideas were top drawer.

    We'll probably get murdered in the Autumn and next 6 Nations. But if they go down playing the way they are just now, I can live with it.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post

    If you disallow a QTI when a line-out has not yet formed, then you are making up your own Laws
    Strictly speaking this may be true but you'd be a bit of a jobsworth if you FK'd the throwing team for intentional delay without going through an ATP process first which would include, IMO, cancelling the QTI option.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Strictly speaking this may be true but you'd be a bit of a jobsworth if you FK'd the throwing team for intentional delay without going through an ATP process first which would include, IMO, cancelling the QTI option.
    Good management doesn't require you to cancel the QTI. At the next break...

    "Skipper, I know what you were trying to with the quick throw back there, but don't delay or waste time forming the line-out please"


    You don't need to make up your own Laws in order to Ask and Tell.

    IMO, if the kick is far enough downfield (and in this case, it was) I see no reason why the players should have to hurry to the LoT, so long as they keep walking towards the LoT at their normal pace, I'm happy.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 22-06-17 at 01:06.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    There are two gratifying things about watching Scotland now.

    1. They work SO hard for each other and the shirt. That's important to me. And they work as a team. Vern Cotter has done an amazing job and deserves every bit of praise he gets.
    2. The midfield play with flair and creativity. It's good that Toonie is in charge now, because Russell is like a V2. I actually enjoyed watching them against Australia and Italy, and thought that some of the hands and ideas were top drawer.

    We'll probably get murdered in the Autumn and next 6 Nations. But if they go down playing the way they are just now, I can live with it.
    Mayber it is just Wales under Gatland and Howler. More fun watching grass grow.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Good management doesn't require you to cancel the QTI. At the next break...

    "Skipper, I know what you were trying to with the quick throw back there, but don't delay or waste time forming the line-out please"


    You don't need to make up your own Laws in order to Ask and Tell.

    IMO, if the kick is far enough downfield (and in this case, it was) I see no reason why the players should have to hurry to the LoT, so long as they keep walking towards the LoT at their normal pace, I'm happy.
    Agreed which is why tools such as ME and ATP are so useful. You can get your message across without being a jobsworth. BUT, you always have the option of going straight to the whistle first time if you need it.

    In the QTI scenario that opened this discussion there was some clever and positive thinking and the Lions were caught out by it because they were slow and ponderous and not alert to the options. As referees we need to encourage that. We also need to avoid getting bogged down wit hdictionaly definitions of words. They are not always helpful. "without delay" can mean a differnt thing in the last 5 minutes of a fast test match to in the first 5 minutes when the players are fresh. Referee with common sense and empathy.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    It'll depend on the specific situation, but as a rule of thumb if a team delay forming the lineout long enough that I have to tell them to hurry up, I'd be reluctant to allow the QTI.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    It would perhaps be a thought in my mind to wait for any complaint on the part of the opposition captain?

    "Sir, We're moving to form the line and they're taking advantage" ( less polite wording!).

    If they are slow recognising the situation, who am I to interfere?

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    It'll depend on the specific situation, but as a rule of thumb if a team delay forming the lineout long enough that I have to tell them to hurry up, I'd be reluctant to allow the QTI.
    at which point do you go with lineout or FK?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    at which point do you go with lineout or FK?
    If I tell them to hurry up and they don't (typically staying in a huddle) then I'll give a FK.

    TBH I've never had a situation where I've hurried a team up and they've immediately taken a QTI, but if the non-throwing side had already formed their side of the lineout I'd probably insist we had the lineout.
    Giving the FK for not forming the line feels a bit harsh, but I don't think the throwing team should get an advantage when they're the ones not fully complying with the laws.

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Sneaky QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think we are all agreed that there is some sort of time limit for a QTI. Probably not completely fixed as context will matter, but the Q in QTI is important, they can't wait forever.

    Another Law question though - if it is done quickly - is it allowed to retrieve the ball, put it down, and then pick it up again and perform a QTI ? Or does putting it down signify that a full lineout has been chosen
    there's nothing in the laws to say it can;t be done. So the simple answer is presumably "NO".

    CF: dummy pass. the only person/people being "conned" are the opposition wrt to a legal maneuverer.

    didds

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