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Thread: Front row player forced up

      
  1. #101
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Front row player forced up

    Nowhere in 2018 Law is there a requirement for players in a scrum to continue their bind throughout the scrum duration. Standing up is nowhere identified as an offence.

    However, I did find inconsistencies in how WR has changed Advantage and Scrum laws over the past couple of years.


    The text box at the bottom of this post is just for reference. I've tracked the changes in advantage law and scrum law over the 2015 to 2018 Laws to see how they changed re. 'standing up' and 'collapse'.

    Now, I get that there is something of a disconnect between 'advantage law' and 'scrum law' as advantage is only relevant if there has been an infringement of law. However, it helps to bring into focus what the Law Writers are thinking. So here is the summation as I see it:

    1. In 2016 they allow advantage on collapsed scrums (to promote continuity?) but forget (?) to remove the bit in the scrum law.

    They also allowed advantage if a player was forced up (out of the scrum) but had his feet on the ground. Again, forgot to remove the bit in scrum law.

    2. In 2017 they delete the 'ref must blow whistle on collapse' bit from the scrum law. They leave in the 'must blow whistle on player forced up'.

    3. In 2018 they continue to allow advantage if a player is forced up as long as he is in contact with the ground. Collapsed scrums are allowed to continue if they are not dangerous.
    So, 2018 advantage looks like 2017 advantage, just wording changed.

    However, in the scrum law they retained the requirement to whistle and stop the scrum for a collapse or for a player to be forced up with no reference to contact with the ground.

    A little consistency in Law would help eliminate inconsistency in refereeing.



    Advantage law 8.3 When the advantage law is not applied

    2015

    (d) Collapsed scrum. Advantage must not be applied when a scrum collapses. The referee must blow the whistle immediately.

    (e) Player lifted in the air. Advantage must not be applied when a player in a scrum is lifted in the air or forced upwards out of the scrum. The referee must blow the whistle immediately.

    2017 (Changes introduced in 2016)
    Reference to collapsed scrum deleted

    (d) Player lifted in the air. Advantage must not be applied when a player in a scrum is lifted in the air or forced upwards and has no support on the ground. The referee must blow the whistle immediately.

    2018

    Law 7.3 Advantage must not be applied and the referee must blow the whistle immediately when:

    d. A player in a scrum is lifted or forced upwards so that the player is no longer in contact with the ground.

    g. It would be dangerous to let play continue.


    . . . and we have the corresponding scrum law:

    20.3 Binding in the scrum

    2015 and 2016

    (h) Scrum collapse. If a scrum collapses, the referee must blow the whistle immediately so that players stop pushing.

    (i) Player forced upwards. If a player in a scrum is lifted in the air, or is forced upwards out of the scrum, the referee must blow the whistle immediately so that players stop pushing.

    2017

    (h) Scrum collapse has been deleted but Player forced upwards is retained.

    2018

    Law 19 During a scrum

    25. If a scrum collapses or if a player in the scrum is lifted or is forced upwards out of the scrum, the referee must blow the whistle immediately so that players stop pushing.

    37. Dangerous play in a scrum includes:
    c. Intentionally lifting an opponent off their feet or forcing them upwards out of the scrum.
    d. Intentionally collapsing a scrum.


  2. #102

    Referees in England


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    Default Re: Front row player forced up

    hmm - another difference between the 2017 and 2018 Law book !

    2017

    20.1(e) Number of players: eight. A scrum must have eight players from each team. All eight
    players must stay bound to the scrum until it ends
    . Each front row must have three players
    in it , no more and no less. Two locks must form the second row.
    Sanction: Penalty kick


    That key phrase omitted from the 2018 Law Book !

    Contrary to the general rule I was propounding in another thread - that does strike me as accidental ! Oops

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