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Thread: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

      
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    Default Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    So did Poite get the call correct in the end? In his discussion with Ayoub during the TMO discussion it sounded like they were going to stick with the penalty

    He said "..are you happy for the knock on ,challenge in the after and penalty kick against 16 red in front" and George Ayoub said "Yes I am". Then Poite says "Oui Jean" appears to listen. He then calls the Captains together and explains that he is giving a scrum.

    Was it the correct call?

    And what did "Jean" say to change his mind when both he and the TMO agreed with the penalty but he changes his mind a few seconds later.

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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    For me Owens caught the ball from instinct. He dropped the ball as soon as he realised. Whilst you could argue that it was a PK. Empathy with the players says; no way. Just as the PK that won it for the lions last week was poor game management this time it was good. The Lions gained from both. Such is life.

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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    I'll start by saying that ultimately, I think the PK/scrum decision was 50:50. Ball played forward and hits a team mate in front who doesn't do anything: accidental; player in front actively goes for the ball: deliberate. This was between the two. Had Owens done nothing, the ball would have hit him, but he momentarily caught it and immediately dropped it, which I think is very pertinent. Had he held onto it, definite penalty.

    As as for the use of the TMO, you're allowed to use it for potential foul play (which he did), and if you see something else can you act on it? I don't know the protocol for this series, but I don't think it's clear cut that it was wrongly used.

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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayner View Post

    And what did "Jean" say to change his mind when both he and the TMO agreed with the penalty but he changes his mind a few seconds later.
    Forget, for a minute if the call was correct or not, your last sentence is where I had the WTF? moment. Something changed between the sideline when he talked to TMO and when he got to the captains. Is it possible for the TMO to bring down the "Cone of Silence" and say something to the referee, that we can't hear, to change his mind. I don't know, maybe something along the lines of, "Pssst, Roman. Scotland, RWC, Joubert"
    Last edited by The Fat; 08-07-17 at 15:07.
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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    Something changed between the sideline when he talked to TMO and when he got to the captains. Is it possible for the TMO to bring down the "Cone of Silence" and say something to the referee, that we can't hear, to change his mind. I don't know, maybe something along the lines of, "Pssst, Roman. Scotland, RWC, Joubert"
    I could be wrong in that he could have said Oui George rather than Oui Jean. That would corroborate what you are saying.

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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    It was a stonewall PK, no provision for 'accidental' in law.

    11.7 When a player knocks-on and an offside team-mate next plays the ball, the offside player is
    liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage.
    Sanction: Penalty kick

    Poite gave the correct decision initially, and then for some reason not clear on audio changed his mind. If there was no opponent likely to gain advantage, then the call should have been scrum for knock on.

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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    Is the shoulder part of the arm ? If not then no knock on . However Williams still played the ball and Owens interfered with play, from an offside position therefore PK . I think Poite was trying to avoid a Craig Joubert moment ! AB's rightly annoyed as it as clearly one of their ''go to'' restarts .

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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    it doesn't matter whether it was arm or shoulder - either way Williams was offside.

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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    it doesn't matter whether it was arm or shoulder - either way Williams was offside.

    Did Read touch the ball first and knock-on?
    ABs v BIL.JPG
    Last edited by The Fat; 08-07-17 at 16:07.
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    Default Re: Lions Series - Accidental Offsite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigib View Post
    It was a stonewall PK, no provision for 'accidental' in law.
    So if a scrum half took the ball out of a scrum then lost it forward and it bounced off his no. 8's arse, you'd give a penalty?

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