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Thread: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

      
  1. #1

    Referees in England
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    Default Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    I very rarely have to reset a scrum at my level but the resets at the top level really are a joke and as a spectator sport pretty boring.
    A colleague reckoned there was over 20 minutes of scrum time in final lions test.
    For me the solution is simple. First time a scrum goes down, Stop the clock and don't restart it until the ball leaves the scrum.
    At the elite level this would be pretty easy for the time keeper to manage, and at other levels fairly easy for a team of 3 to sort.
    I'm sure the FR brigade would get the message and stop ruining good games with their shenanigans.
    Ciaran Trainor

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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    I'm at a lower level, but also often on quite muddy pitches that are perhaps overused by different teams (six to a pitch not abnormal). So in wetter months - in other words after September - resets are not abnormal, simply for resets.

    Although I do understand where you are coming from, part of the problem is that it is nigh on impossible to know what the first offence is. Typically the side perceived as weaker in the scrum, or simply the side not putting the ball in, is pinged whenever a referee has had enough of it.

    I don't have a problem with penalising props at the elite level for "popping up", but having played the majority of my rugby at hooker and then mostly at loose and tight head (for five years each) at grassroots level, I know from experience what it is like to be dominated in the scrum, although my own mastery of the dark arts is firmly limited to what hookers can do (a skill not possessed by most elite hookers, I should add).

    As to ruining a good game, do remember that a full game of rugby lasts 80 minutes of playing time, and although seven or even eight substitutes are available, it isn't like Merkin football at the elite level, with four quarters spanning up to three hours.

    Different interpretations of the law on time between elite and grassroots levels should be limited to the fact that grassroots may have another game due to kick off 90 minutes after the previous one, in my opinion.

    At the elite level, I don't mind if 30 minutes of the game is lost to stoppages, as long as the other 50 minutes of match time are high quality.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    Here is another suggestion

    1. If possible, the referee should absolutely make sure that he determines who was responsible for the scrum needing to be reset, then PK/FK as appropriate.

    2. If there genuinely was either no fault or both at fault, then the reset scrum is uncontested. This would encourage the superior scrum to keep the scrum up and make it a fair contest.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 15-07-17 at 22:07.
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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    I very rarely have to reset a scrum at my level but the resets at the top level really are a joke and as a spectator sport pretty boring.
    A colleague reckoned there was over 20 minutes of scrum time in final lions test.
    For me the solution is simple. First time a scrum goes down, Stop the clock and don't restart it until the ball leaves the scrum.
    At the elite level this would be pretty easy for the time keeper to manage, and at other levels fairly easy for a team of 3 to sort.
    So you could have a pushover scrum and try while the clock is stopped?

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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    It's an idea worth looking at. A tweak here and there and it could be useful.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    At elite level, I also think the idea of bringing the blindside/shortside AR in closer to the scrum so that we have a referee on both sides of the scrum should be seriously looked at.

    Unlike other codes we use an actual referee to mark the touchline. If he comes in to within 5m of the scrum he's going to be able to see any malarkey easier, and even with a scrum in centrefield, he is never going to have more than about 30 metres to run to get back to the touchline. The vast majority of resets occur before the ball is in, so as soon as the ball is in, the AR scoots back to his touchline.
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    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    Ian, when the man with the whistle gets it wrong from 5m away (see the other thread "Force up") then bringing in the AR just means that there would be another set of eyes getting it wrong.

    There should be no reason for the front rows to go down more than 1 in 10 (or more) times. If a scrum goes down 3 times in one scrum attempt sin bin 6 players. If the replacements go down go to uncontested.

    I know there are faults with that but giving more PKs isn't the answer.

    Here's that scrum from the last AB v. BIL : https://youtu.be/npZA7iijqPg?t=222

    My question is: Why even blow it up? When the BIL TH went down it made no difference. Let the ball get played away. Instead we have a gimme 3 points for what?
    Last edited by ChrisR; 17-07-17 at 00:07.

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    Referees in Holland


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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Here's that scrum from the last AB v. BIL : https://youtu.be/npZA7iijqPg?t=222

    My question is: Why even blow it up? When the BIL TH went down it made no difference. Let the ball get played away. Instead we have a gimme 3 points for what?
    To be perfectly honest, despite the recent law changes which mean that a collapsed scrum can continue if the ball will soon be out - which means that this is a technical blooper - I'd rather have a penalty against the BIL than some player (adult, never mind a junior) in hospital.

    But again, I am a grassroots referee, and my front rows that I brief have to go to work or school again after the weekend.

    Obviously I can only check for binding on one side as a referee, but as an AR it doesn't matter if I am at 5 metres or 30 metres, and I'm looking for patterns when not wired up to the referee in that case.

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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Here's that scrum from the last AB v. BIL : https://youtu.be/npZA7iijqPg?t=222

    My question is: Why even blow it up? When the BIL TH went down it made no difference. Let the ball get played away. Instead we have a gimme 3 points for what?
    Because the ball wasn't at the back of the scrum? If it was, Murray would have been digging for it.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Stop the Clock - that may sort it out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rushforth View Post

    Obviously I can only check for binding on one side as a referee, but as an AR it doesn't matter if I am at 5 metres or 30 metres, and I'm looking for patterns when not wired up to the referee in that case.
    I was going to say that why bring a AR in to 5m of the scrum when they are not looking/don't see bind infringements from 30m away ... that's hardly taxing already.

    didds

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