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Thread: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    Nobody here obviously Didds, are you sure?
    UPDATE: Ah - I've just caught your nuance!! LOL. Well, indeed!!


    Lets just say - I've seen some very odd decisions over the years and have mentioned my two favourite ones here on occasion. others here regularly report odd decisions they have seen. odd decisions happen constantly.

    My two involve a total misunderstanding of the not-5m-at-a-lineout law with a very bizarre interpretation of who gets penalised and the other involved "must show control" when a fill back forces in-goal to a loose ball.

    So whilst OK I cannot guarantee 100% that somebody will insist on 8 in a scrum at uncontested when previously the contested scrums had less than that... It would not at all surprise me if/when i hear of it happening.

    You read it here first.

    didds

  2. #22
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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    If a team turn up with 5 are you going to insist they pack with 5 in a scrum leaving no back line defenders?

    That's an extreme point I know. :-)

    UPDATE: Just found this. I guess its buried in the regs somewhere
    http://www.rugbyrefs.com/archive/index.php/t-13586.html

    with a two man differential versus windsor many years ago, but destroying them in the scum anyway (playing without wings) and winning after an hour some interesting injuries occurred meaning they had no ST&E FRs so we went uncontested. Their injured hooker played on the wing despite not being able to play as a hooker was one of them. Now with no pressure in the scrums they just ran around the outside, so we dropped the flankers to cover. then we had injuries ourselves so I (as pack leader) just called a 3 man front row and dispatched the remaining second row to the backline.

    Ref pinged us for not having 5 in the scrum. He mumbled the reason at me whilst looking at the ground. I simply said "its not us that taking the piss out of this game".

    safety - equity (as was back then ) - law. Really?

    didds
    Nowadays, you should just fail to form 20.1.d & get set up to defend the FK. Sorted

  3. #23

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by VM75 View Post
    Nowadays, you should just fail to form 20.1.d & get set up to defend the FK. Sorted
    except the oppo then take the scrum option at a FK and you repeat until it turns into PKs and YCs.

    didds

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    Our guidence is that if a player is unfit to scrummage them he leaves the field. So he can't go on the wing.

    Also you can't start a game with 5 so not relevant.

    Finally we re introducing a "community" level where the two sides and the referee can agree variations such as youth. and dispensations in general. All in the name of getting people playing. We await the full details but it will be interesting as it beds in.
    Very Interesting development , 'Community' rugby beginning to create their own game coz WR laws don't satisfy Community objectives. Perhaps this is the start of the "two lawbooks" you've previously championed.

    Will the 'powers' see such development positively, maybe Pegleg is to become the head of development of WCR , might get a high quartile community salary !

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    except the oppo then take the scrum option at a FK and you repeat until it turns into PKs and YCs.

    didds
    yep, that's the downside IF the op are switched onto law AND the referee knows and is prepared to use 'repeated' law to its ultimate. lots of confusion could reign as he has to explain to captain and stop & start his various YC stopwatches, and all this assumes that their are enough scrums to activate such

    In many games nowadays advantage taken seems to reduce the minor infringement scrums to only a few per match , so it might never get to 'repeated' numericals

  6. #26

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by VM75 View Post
    yep, that's the downside IF the op are switched onto law AND the referee knows and is prepared to use 'repeated' law to its ultimate. lots of confusion could reign as he has to explain to captain and stop & start his various YC stopwatches, and all this assumes that their are enough scrums to activate such

    In many games nowadays advantage taken seems to reduce the minor infringement scrums to only a few per match , so it might never get to 'repeated' numericals
    maybe - but the point is that the awarded FK can become a scrum ie its an option. So the team that is being FK'd could end up immediately facing another scrum. they haven;t got to wait several minutes for a no advantage knock on to occur... its there and then. if they FK that one, it can be another scrum option... and if they transgress similarly there than has to become a PK.

    Now... at that PK a savvy captain may elect for another scrum to start looking for a card!

    Now - I doubt very much the same team would delivberately fall foul of that law once they've been done for it once and the scrum was called for... but who knows?!



    didds

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    maybe - but the point is that the awarded FK can become a scrum ie its an option. So the team that is being FK'd could end up immediately facing another scrum. they haven;t got to wait several minutes for a no advantage knock on to occur... its there and then. if they FK that one, it can be another scrum option... and if they transgress similarly there than has to become a PK.

    Now... at that PK a savvy captain may elect for another scrum to start looking for a card!

    Now - I doubt very much the same team would delivberately fall foul of that law once they've been done for it once and the scrum was called for... but who knows?!

    didds
    i'm not disagreeing, just exploring.

    a] unsavvy capt might exist
    b] FK is usually seen as a preferred go forward option for most places on pitch
    c] ref mightn't have the appetite to reduce numbers in such circumstances

    additional creativity around the subject might bore the opposition into just falling for your tomfoolery
    Last edited by VM75; 26-07-17 at 17:07.

  8. #28

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by VM75 View Post
    i'm not disagreeing, just exploring.


    b] FK is usually seen as a preferred go forward option for most places on pitch
    I'd have to respectfully disagree with that. Fks outside of the 22s are totally useless. you can;t kick them direct to touch, so all you have left is a tap n go - and at least a scrum ties up 9 of the oppo 9or up to 9!) in one area.

    Inside your own 22 they can be used to clear you lines, but you conede the throw. In the oppo 22 they aren;t really much more use that elswhere although the closer to the line they are a tap n go becomes more useful maybe.

    YMMV of ciourse. I just don;t see them as much use other than to clear one's lines, assuming a par scrum anyway.

    didds

  9. #29

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I'd have to respectfully disagree with that. Fks outside of the 22s are totally useless. you can;t kick them direct to touch, so all you have left is a tap n go - and at least a scrum ties up 9 of the oppo 9or up to 9!) in one area.

    Inside your own 22 they can be used to clear you lines, but you conede the throw. In the oppo 22 they aren;t really much more use that elswhere although the closer to the line they are a tap n go becomes more useful maybe.

    YMMV of ciourse. I just don;t see them as much use other than to clear one's lines, assuming a par scrum anyway.

    didds
    so in summary
    - they are more useful than a scrum (because they can be turned into a scrum, but offer the ADDITIONAL opportunity for a quick tap, if it's on.
    - they are less useful than a PK, as you don't get gain in ground or the throw.

    Which means they are pretty much doing the job intended then

  10. #30

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    Default Re: New Laws : 8 in a scrum

    But the quick tap option is rarely a really useful option particularly outside of the oppo 22... so i stand by what i say. I do see your point being made.

    didds

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