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Thread: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy View Post
    Question if i may .
    Above scenario was acceptable in practice last season & this season with ammended laws .
    As in theory , a ruck still never commenced .
    My question is , where worded ATTACKING PLAYER HAS HANDS ON BALL .
    So a deffender whilst running back can now tackle attacking player . From attacking side ( open play )

    I would be reluctant to let deffender make a tackle , unless the ball was either in possesion of attacking player , as in lifted ,,or it was in advanced stage of being lifted from floor .

    Im just asking , is hands on ball , enough of a criteria to allow same person be tackled

    Why would it not be?

    If the player was in the act of picking up a loose ball in General Play and has his hands on the ball, is he liable to be tackled?

    How about if he is picking up the ball ½m from the opponent's goal-line? Does any would be defender have to wait until the player lifts the ball off the ground before tackling him?
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  2. #32

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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy View Post
    Question if i may .


    Im just asking , is hands on ball , enough of a criteria to allow same person be tackled

    Definitions:
    Possession
    "This happens where a player is carrying the ball (or attempting to bring it under control) or the team has the ball in tis control; for example the ball in one half of a scrum or ruck is in that team's possession


    I would argue that hands on the ball is not - using the above definition - possession and so the player cannot be tackled.

    However, to bind upon that player and drive him away from the tackle/ruck then there is no problem.

    In reality, let the situation breathe and see what happens
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  3. #33

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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    in essence the question is "what is the difference between being tackled and being cleared out - except the latter potentially leaves the ball behind.

    It also highlights that in open play (ie no tackle, loose ball etc) a ruck could be formed (as it "always could") by a "defender" running back towards his own DBL clearing out an "attacker" and in so doing coming into contact over the ball . They;'d potentially create a ruck of course with offsides lines stitching their own team up ! Though it may still be the best solution (last defender etc)

    didds

  4. #34

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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    Definitions:
    Possession
    "This happens where a player is carrying the ball (or attempting to bring it under control) or the team has the ball in tis control; for example the ball in one half of a scrum or ruck is in that team's possession


    I would argue that hands on the ball is not - using the above definition - possession and so the player cannot be tackled.

    However, to bind upon that player and drive him away from the tackle/ruck then there is no problem.

    In reality, let the situation breathe and see what happens

    If you put your hands on the ball then you are attempting to bring it under control, otherwise why do it?

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  5. #35

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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    If you put your hands on the ball then you are attempting to bring it under control, otherwise why do it?
    PHIL, I see the "attempting to bring it under control" as the juggling that often occurs when the pass is not great.
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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    PHIL, I see the "attempting to bring it under control" as the juggling that often occurs when the pass is not great.
    It cuts both ways.

    I'm not sure I see any valid reason to give a free pass to a player with his hands in the ball in open play.

    For mine, hands on = you have the ball.
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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    . . . the exception being ruck and scrum.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Just for clarity, for me... Red kick way downfield and have 14 and 15 chasing. Blue 15 catches and is instantly tackled by red 14. As soon as red 15 arrives to pick up the ball, the ruck is formed by a player being over the ball, yes?

    So because it's a ruck offside line, the rest of the blue team are offside until a) red 15 has run 5 metres or passed, but not kicked (law 11.8)

    or b) until they pass the offside line, where the ball was picked up?

    If red 15 picks the ball and goes for a drop goal (or any kick), he's safe from being tackled unless blue overtakes him and comes back for the tackle. Same for chip-and-chase. But running with the ball doesn't have much benefit, as any chasers behind him are almost immediately over the ruck offside line.

    Am I thinking clearly on this?

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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    Just for clarity, for me... Red kick way downfield and have 14 and 15 chasing. Blue 15 catches and is instantly tackled by red 14. As soon as red 15 arrives to pick up the ball, the ruck is formed by a player being over the ball, yes?

    So because it's a ruck offside line, the rest of the blue team are offside until a) red 15 has run 5 metres or passed, but not kicked (law 11.8)

    or b) until they pass the offside line, where the ball was picked up?

    If red 15 picks the ball and goes for a drop goal (or any kick), he's safe from being tackled unless blue overtakes him and comes back for the tackle. Same for chip-and-chase. But running with the ball doesn't have much benefit, as any chasers behind him are almost immediately over the ruck offside line.

    Am I thinking clearly on this?
    I think the tricky area is where red 15 picks up the ball, and then passes it : because any blue player tackling the new ball carrier is now in the position of being a 'lazy runner' -- even though the pass technically renders him onside, lazy runners aren't allowed to benefit from being a lazy runner.

    (of course they aren't literally lazy, they are probably running as fast as they can, but that's the term usually used for players who are still moving back to a ruck to get themselves onside)

  10. #40

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    Default Re: New tactics being deployed from new law changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    Just for clarity, for me... Red kick way downfield and have 14 and 15 chasing. Blue 15 catches and is instantly tackled by red 14. As soon as red 15 arrives to pick up the ball, the ruck is formed by a player being over the ball, yes?

    So because it's a ruck offside line, the rest of the blue team are offside until a) red 15 has run 5 metres or passed, but not kicked (law 11.8)

    or b) until they pass the offside line, where the ball was picked up?

    If red 15 picks the ball and goes for a drop goal (or any kick), he's safe from being tackled unless blue overtakes him and comes back for the tackle. Same for chip-and-chase. But running with the ball doesn't have much benefit, as any chasers behind him are almost immediately over the ruck offside line.

    Am I thinking clearly on this?
    This is uncomfortably close to the scenario that caused an earlier ELV (which created an offside line at the tackle) to be withdrawn after a couple of matches.
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