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  1. #31

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    so not approaching but forming?

    didds

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I've been on this ride before. If you can't see how deriding people's POV by telling them they have a burr up their arse is likely is to cause offence, then as I said to Paul, leopard & spots. But your post #24 is certainly more civil, so you clearly get it when you want to.

    But you keep on getting away with it with no contrition, so more power to you. Well done.
    Only the longer standing members here will have noted your passive aggressive phraseology regarding "innovation" back at Ian. If you poke a hornets' nest, don't complain if you get stung.
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    There are buttons to indicate like and dislike
    People generally use them to indicate agree or disagree.
    I suggest that going forward we use the dislike button to dislike the tone of a post
    Perhaps we could use peer pressure that way to make the forum more civil.
    The mods can't or won't address the problem. Perhaps we can do it as a community

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Back to the topic , I think that the purpose of the QTI is to keep the game flowing
    If teams are slowing down the game to try and get the chance of a a sneaky QTI then this defeats the purpose.

    But rather than my first suggestion above , forcing a QTI to be taken without delay, I prefer the other suggestion .. let the non throwing team thwart a QTI by lining up for a lineout .
    (and many players seem to think this is law anyway )

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Trouble is I agree with Ian that there is no problem to be fixed. I also agree that spontaneity and creativity can be throttled by misapplication of the laws. I can give several examples from personal experience.

    The most aggravating is "It didn't look right".

    Perhaps Ian could have his own Smiley. Smoke coming out of the ears or a look of disdain. It only bothers me when he supports a position (one that I don't agree with) by dismissing all others as being not qualified to have an opinion. Then it's personal.

  6. #36

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Trouble is I agree with Ian that there is no problem to be fixed. I also agree that spontaneity and creativity can be throttled by misapplication of the laws. I can give several examples from personal experience.

    The most aggravating is "It didn't look right".

    Perhaps Ian could have his own Smiley. Smoke coming out of the ears or a look of disdain. It only bothers me when he supports a position (one that I don't agree with) by dismissing all others as being not qualified to have an opinion. Then it's personal.
    When have I ever said others don't qualify to have an opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Back to the topic , I think that the purpose of the QTI is to keep the game flowing
    If teams are slowing down the game to try and get the chance of a a sneaky QTI then this defeats the purpose.
    If you think they are deliberately slowing things down to get in a sneaky QTi, ping them under that Law (I'll elaborate on that later).

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But rather than my first suggestion above , forcing a QTI to be taken without delay, I prefer the other suggestion .. let the non throwing team thwart a QTI by lining up for a lineout .
    (and many players seem to think this is law anyway )
    Your suggestion, if carried through, will all but eliminate the chance to even have a QTi at all. The kicking team will make it a priority to get two players to the LoT. Under your suggestion, say, in a clearing kick scenario, the kicking team kicks the ball 35m downfield but it crosses the touchline 20m away from the kicker. They may already be at the LoT or very close to it, so all the kicking team would have to do is get two players to where the AR/TJ is marking touch, and 15m further downfield, the throwing team is not allowed to take a QTi

    Mertons Law; I respectfully suggest that you need to think about the possible unintended consequences of your suggestions.

    There are three possible scenarios here to deal with

    1. Neither team has two players at the LoT
    This is the usual situation when a QTi is taken. Play on until a QTi is taken or a lineout forms

    2. The throwing team already have two players at the LoT the non-throwing team is delaying forming the lineout.
    The QTi should be on until the non-throwing team get two players to the LoT. If they delay and form a huddle to discuss what they are going to do, even if this is some time later, if a QTi is taken, you should allow it. This might give the non-throwing team a hint to get their arses into gear next time.

    3. The non-throwing team already have two players at the LoT and the throwing team is delaying forming the line-out
    In this case, you have to decide if the throwing team is delaying the game. There is a simple way to asses this. If you have time to think to yourself that they are delaying the game, then they ARE delaying the game (this is the same advice I give when I'm the Chief Cross Country Judge at a Horse Trials event and I'm briefing the Fence Judges - if you have time to think "Oh, that horse has stopped", then it HAS stopped). Tell the players to get moving. if they don't (or if they do, but it happens again at the next line-out), then a short blow of the whistle, time off (that will stop the QTi if this is what they are trying to do).

    "Skipper. No stopping for a conference. Get your players to the line-out now"

    If it still happens next time, FK them under 19.8 (d)

    None of this requires changes to the Law. The tools for dealing with it are already in the Law... use them!
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  7. #37

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    The tools for dealing with it are already in the Law... use them!
    There are some tools, but it seems to me too biased in favour of the throwing team, who can wait and wait and then still take a "quick" throw a long time after the ball has gone into touch, at any time it is most advantageous to them. Now you can argue that this is not really a problem, let the throwing team have these advantages and use them as they see fit. I just see it too far in favour of one team. If the non throwing team get 2 people to the LOT quickly, then fair play to them, let's give them a reward in preventing a QTI (although maybe renamed at this time to "DQTI" or "Delayed Quick Throw In").

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Quote Originally Posted by Paule23 View Post
    There are some tools, but it seems to me too biased in favour of the throwing team, who can wait and wait and then still take a "quick" throw a long time after the ball has gone into touch, at any time it is most advantageous to them.
    Did you actually read what I posted, because I addressed this exact scenario? If they wait and wait... PING THEM!!! Use Law 19.8 (d)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paule23 View Post
    Now you can argue that this is not really a problem, let the throwing team have these advantages and use them as they see fit. I just see it too far in favour of one team. If the non throwing team get 2 people to the LOT quickly, then fair play to them, let's give them a reward in preventing a QTI (although maybe renamed at this time to "DQTI" or "Delayed Quick Throw In").
    Again, did you actually read my reply to crossref? Again, it addresses this exact scenario.

    If your suggestion is followed through, then we might as well just remove the QTi from the book. On every occasion the ball goes into touch where an opponent of the kicker doesn't actually catch the ball in touch, close to the touchline (which doesn't happen very often), the non throwing team will be able to rush two players to the LoT and stop the QTi before any member of the throwing team can even get to the ball, let alone have the chance to throw it.

    If you don't want to use the tools in the laws, you can't blame the Laws for the situation you find yourself in.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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  9. #39

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Only the longer standing members here will have noted your passive aggressive phraseology regarding "innovation" back at Ian. If you poke a hornets' nest, don't complain if you get stung.
    So I make a (allegedly) passive aggressive post at #19 and that gives the Hornet licence to make an uncivil post at #9??? Who is he - Marty McFly?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Quick throw in

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    You are on shaky ground. As long as the attacking players are walking towards the LoT at a normal walking pace you should allow the QTi (you have no reason in Law not to)
    What if the non-throwing #10, recognising that the QTI is still on eventhough the lineout is 95% formed, exercises his rights and goes and stands next to his opposite number to defend the QTI? What are his options if the lineout does eventually form and what should the referee do?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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