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Thread: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

      
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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Y'all are missing a critical point. The law is intended to apply to arriving players, not the tackled player. If a tackled player releases the ball, gets up and picks up the ball before contact is made with an arriving opponent then no ruck has formed.

    The law may be poorly worded but it's not incomprehensible.
    Well no, the whole point of the new law is that one arriving player constitutes a ruck

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    Yes, I get that. The question in the OP asks if the tackled player, having released the ball and gained their feet over the ball, now constitutes a ruck and as such are prohibited from picking up the ball. I say no because the law is intended to address arriving players, not the tackled player.

    There is still the question of timing. Should the tackled player have to pick up the ball immediately? Do they give up that right if they don't?

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Well no, the whole point of the new law is that one arriving player constitutes a ruck
    The way it was explained to us (panel ref, panel AR) was that the the first player to arrive only creates a ruck in so far as it produces an offside line. You need an opponent in contact for the full ruck law to apply.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The way it was explained to us (panel ref, panel AR) was that the the first player to arrive only creates a ruck in so far as it produces an offside line. You need an opponent in contact for the full ruck law to apply.
    The way it was explained to us by our resident Premiership Referee is that its "a tackle with offside lines, don't shout ruck".

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    so - no ruck, pick it up, score.

    Simples.

    didds

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Yes, I get that. The question in the OP asks if the tackled player, having released the ball and gained their feet over the ball, now constitutes a ruck and as such are prohibited from picking up the ball.
    No; in OP's example, #1 is tackled and gets up, but #8 is standing over her forming the ruck (under new laws).

    I don't think anyone's arguing that you can't place and pick up the ball once tackled.

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The way it was explained to us (panel ref, panel AR) was that the the first player to arrive only creates a ruck in so far as it produces an offside line. You need an opponent in contact for the full ruck law to apply.
    Yes, That would make for a much better game.
    Why on earth doesn't the new Law say that, if that's what they mean.

    Has this new law ever been trialled before anywhere ?

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    In the wildest imaginations of the 12 year old's mind...

    didds

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    If you look at why they are doing it, i.e. to wipe out the possibility of the Italian tactic proliferating in the game, I find it is quite easy to adopt the interpretation that it initially creates an offside line and subsequent application of existing ruck law can then be applied when and if an opponent makes contact.

    Shouldn't be looking at a literal interpretation of the law and ignoring the reasoning. That's where being more broadly informed gives you the edge over those who have a much narrower view of the laws of the game.

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    Default Re: Are no 1's actions now illegal with new ruck definition?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    Shouldn't be looking at a literal interpretation of the law and ignoring the reasoning. That's where being more broadly informed gives you the edge over those who have a much narrower view of the laws of the game.
    Or, even better, they could actually write in the Laws that first person to arrive creates offside line, oppo arrives to create ruck. Then the Laws would say what they mean, and we wouldn't need to 'interpret' them to mean something different from what they say.

    Here's the Law and RFU guidance written on 27th July - my emphasis

    Law 16: Amended Ruck Law
    A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside line is created. A player on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives no hands can be used.
    Guidance Notes:
    The “one man” ruck only applies after a tackle and that normal ruck law applies to all other situations e.g. player voluntarily going to ground, ball on ground in open play etc. The offside line is formed when a player from either team arrive over the ball.


    This is NOT the same as being reported today -- Evidently the RFU themselves weren't intially able to interpret the new Law correctly!

    T
    Last edited by crossref; 31-08-17 at 19:08.

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