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Thread: Calling for a pass from the other team?

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderhorse1986 View Post
    The lineout numbers analogy doesn't really work.
    It means that referee and opposition have to check everything they say. It contributes nothing of value to the game. It's not a skill but just a lie.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    If they're stupid enough to pass it to you then they deserve all they get, IMHO.
    It was decades ago, but a cheecky coach we had told us to scream "my ball" at kick-offs, which tended to confuse opposition. We got tons of penalties against us (thou to be fair we got the same amount of stolen balls). Worked quite well as a last resort plan but it was considered illegal by pretty much everyone, you just got away with it sometimes.

    I know comparing it to other sports isn't always fair but i think this one is valid as it's about making decisions in a fast paced environment. I have seen it a million times in playing footie and it works. It has nothing to do with stupidity.
    You have to make split second decisions and you try to gather as much info about your surroundings as you can. Cross referencing sources is not a luxury most players in that situation can afford. They see a familiar color (jersey) from the corner of their eyes, hear a sound asking for the ball and they make decisions based on that.

    The question becomes if feeding false information to players in that situation is against the rules. I'd like to believe it is.

    It is indirect free kick against the one asking for the ball in footie.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The "if one step, then why not 50?" argument does not really work. There are grey areas all over the laws, and referees deal with them all the time.

    Other than deception, what would be a valid reason for a defender to call out to the ball carrier?
    Some might call it creative cunning ?

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by VM75 View Post
    Some might call it creative cunning ?
    A cunning stunt by a stunning.....

  5. #35

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by VM75 View Post
    Some might call it creative cunning ?
    That is simply playing with words rather than looking at the situation.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    That is simply playing with words rather than looking at the situation.
    equal to - pretending not pass up the opportunity for a quick throw & rolling the ball away & then grabbing it & then doing so ? , i.e. the kind of creative cunning IanC applauds?

  7. #37

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by VM75 View Post
    equal to - pretending not pass up the opportunity for a quick throw & rolling the ball away & then grabbing it & then doing so ? , i.e. the kind of creative cunning IanC applauds?
    For me that is borderline. Calling it "creative cunning" implies approval whereas calling it "cheating" implies disapproval. Neither explains the rationale behind the view point.

    Things like dummy passes or decoy runners are based on genuine rugby-type moves. Calling for a pass from the opposition, shouting to disrupt lineout calls, saying "5 in" to mean "6" are not. I don't believe people who think up such moves are improving the game
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    WR has specifically outlawed some types of deceptive play - SH dummying from base of scrum/ruck and kicker pointing to posts and then taking a quick tap are 2 examples.

    These 2 are categorised by the opposition not being able to reasonably be aware of what is going on - flanker can't see the ball so has to rely on watching the SH and opposition can't here the kicker telling ref he's going to tap while pointing at the sticks.

    On the other hand, if the throwing team says "all in" the opposition lineout can reasonably ascertain whether that is true or not.

    I'd have to assume that anything that is not specifically banned is fair game (acknowledging that taking an AK-47 onto the ground is not specifically banned).
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #39

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I'd have to assume that anything that is not specifically banned is fair game (acknowledging that taking an AK-47 onto the ground is not specifically banned).
    In other words you acknowledge that there is a wide gamut of possibilities ranging from normal rugby plays such as a dummy pass through to outright criminal activities. The question is where to draw the line.

    Since rugby is a physical game rather than a verbal one, I draw the line at deliberately misleading calls by the opposition. They irritate the opponents in a way that a successful dummy does not and are seen as spoiling the game.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Calling for a pass from the other team?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The question is where to draw the line.
    This where I draw the line: "not being able to reasonably be aware of what is going on"

    YMMV.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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