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Thread: When is the No8 fair game?

      
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    Default When is the No8 fair game?

    Seen this a few times in my last couple of games.
    Ball in a stationary scrum at red second rows feet. Red 8 reaches in with one hand and picks up the ball, now legal. Can Blue scrum half tackle him or does he have to leave him until he breaks his bind with other arm, I think so.
    Similarly Red again reaches in and then has two hands on the ball but still inside scrum i.e. in front of second rows feet. For me he's now clearly fair game.
    Any thoughts?
    Ciaran Trainor

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    This came up at a Society meeting I went to

    Answer circulated was

    In answer to a question raised at the meeting on Monday regarding the N0. 8 being allowed to pick up the ball in the scrum.



    As promised clarification and an answer to the question:

    “When does the scrum end after the No.8 picks up from the 2nd row?



    Answer: It is being applied as scrum over when the ball has left the ground. Same as for receiver at ruck
    .

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Does the new law trial allow the #8 to be bound with one arm and pick up out of the second row?

    didds

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    Seen this a few times in my last couple of games.
    Ball in a stationary scrum at red second rows feet. Red 8 reaches in with one hand and picks up the ball, now legal. Can Blue scrum half tackle him or does he have to leave him until he breaks his bind with other arm, I think so.
    Similarly Red again reaches in and then has two hands on the ball but still inside scrum i.e. in front of second rows feet. For me he's now clearly fair game.
    Any thoughts?
    If ball was at back of scrum at nr 8s feet .
    With their scrum half with hands on the ball .
    Would you consider this now fair game for opposition scrum half to tackle him .
    ((( I WOULD NOT )))

    the new laws simply allow nr 8 to gather ball from inside his teams scrum .
    Hands on the ball is not the the same as gathered ( or has possesion )
    Opposition nr 9 as we all know cant go into pocket any more .

    On grounds of safety , we couldnt allow opposition scrum half to attempt to tackle nr 8 , whilst he is acually gathering ball from inside scrum .
    Also opposition scrum half cant step in front of ball , whilst ball is in scrum ( this law should cover scenario )

    Its an interesting question .
    For me , if nr 8 has ball in his hands & is standing in his nr 8 position looking for options .
    Yes let opposition nr 9 come around .

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Does the new law trial allow the #8 to be bound with one arm and pick up out of the second row?

    didds
    Realistically, given that he's explicitly allowed to pick up a ball in the second row, he's often going to do it with one hand , isn't he ?

    It's a rubbish Law trial, for just this reason.

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Does the new law trial allow the #8 to be bound with one arm and pick up out of the second row?

    didds
    No. MSF
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    No. MSF
    Why not?

    Law 20.9 (b)
    The number eight shall be allowed to pick the ball from the feet of the second-rows.

    Law 20.3 (f) requires "ALL Other Players (IE NOT FR) to bind ... with at least one arm..." So the 8 can bind with one arm and NOT pick up the ball but not if he picks it up? That can't be right. Crossref is spot on. He pretty much HAS TO BE bound with only one arm to do it.

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    Why not?

    Law 20.9 (b)
    The number eight shall be allowed to pick the ball from the feet of the second-rows.

    Law 20.3 (f) requires "ALL Other Players (IE NOT FR) to bind ... with at least one arm..." So the 8 can bind with one arm and NOT pick up the ball but not if he picks it up? That can't be right. Crossref is spot on. He pretty much HAS TO BE bound with only one arm to do it.
    So can he pick the ball up with one arm, keep it held under one arm while bound with the other, while the scrum is moving forward, like he would at the back of a maul? This would seem wrong. I agree with the interpretation, once he has picked it up, the scrum is ended, offside lines stop applying and he is fair game to be tackled.

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    the difference now is that
    - previously the #8 would/had to unbind, and then pick up the ball
    - now it seems likely that they will be tempted/allowed to pick up the ball (with one hand) and then unbind

    with the Society ruling that I have received (#2) the scrum is over when the ball leaves the ground.
    That seems reasonable to me
    but at this moment the #8 might be still actually bound. but the scrum is over an he can be tackled.
    This does not seem like a happy situation.

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    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Does the new law trial allow the #8 to be bound with one arm and pick up out of the second row?

    didds
    Raised at Panel meeting.
    Pick up with one hand - ball out - use it. No difference to previous interpretation of laws when it was at the back and at his/her feet. If you pick up and remain in the scrum you have caused an obstruction, if nothing else.

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