Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 47

Thread: When is the No8 fair game?

      
  1. #31
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    28 Feb 17
    Posts
    977
    Thanks (Received)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    99
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    The nuance now is that by being able to remain bound to pick the ball up (whether 2nd row or under feet) the break off will be slowed. that is time the oppo s/half can potentially tackle the #8.

    With a more standard approach the #8 could unbind and be away PROBABLY quicker than remaining bound etc - especially if the pick up one handed is from the 2nd row . That's the crux.

    didds
    Who suggested remaining bound in the first place?

    A pick up is a pick up and the scrum is over.

    No issue IMO.

  2. #32

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,018
    Thanks (Received)
    47
    Likes (Received)
    774

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    Who suggested remaining bound in the first place?
    .
    somebody up there ^^^^

    I asked in #3. CR answered in #5 ... and onwards. there appeared to a general consensus (I perceived) that it was possible. It seemed an obvious to thing to check about.

    didds

  3. #33
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 3
    Join Date
    03 Sep 14
    Posts
    3,330
    Thanks (Received)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    507

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderhorse1986 View Post
    So can he pick the ball up with one arm, keep it held under one arm while bound with the other, while the scrum is moving forward, like he would at the back of a maul? This would seem wrong. I agree with the interpretation, once he has picked it up, the scrum is ended, offside lines stop applying and he is fair game to be tackled.
    That is notthing to do with What Didds said, which was "Does the new law trial allow the #8 to be bound with one arm and pick up out of the second row?"

    The law clearly does allow that. No, he can't pick it up in the scrum and keep the scrum live the ball has to leave the scrum. The rational is to provide continuity of play getting the ball into play.

  4. #34
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 3
    Join Date
    03 Sep 14
    Posts
    3,330
    Thanks (Received)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    507

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    Raised at Panel meeting.
    Pick up with one hand - ball out - use it. No difference to previous interpretation of laws when it was at the back and at his/her feet. If you pick up and remain in the scrum you have caused an obstruction, if nothing else.
    Pretty obvious. if the 8 picks up the scrum is over and anything else other than him removing the other arm and moving away will be an offence. Doe not stop him beign bound with one are and picking it up.

  5. #35
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 3
    Join Date
    03 Sep 14
    Posts
    3,330
    Thanks (Received)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    507

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    If the flanker can be bound until the ball is picked up and therfore the scrum is over and he can then get to the 8 before he's fully unbound then the 8 probably is usung the other 7 players as a block. If the 8 is picking up one handed (as the law allows) whilst being bound he needs to act pretty quickly and get the ball away from, what remains of, the scrum.

  6. #36

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,045
    Thanks (Received)
    91
    Likes (Received)
    1284

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    The Law variation simply says
    20.9 (b) Handling in the scrum - exception

    Allow the number eight to pick the ball from the feet of the second-rows.


    Nothing about remaining bound while he does so.

    To make sense of it I assume the ball is not out until the #8 has lifted it out, but that if he unbinds, he must not delay picking the ball up.

    That means the scrum half can go wide and the #8 has time to pass to him.

    The WR video clip is not too clear, but it looks as if he first puts a hand on the ball to steady it before releasing the bind with his other hand to pick up the ball.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  7. #37
    Player or Coach

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    07 Mar 17
    Posts
    429
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    85

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    In practice, provided the pick up has happened and the No8 doesn't procrastinate, then I'm expecting the 9 to wait until the unbind is clear and obvious before he can jump all over the 8.**

    I see the intention of this law trial is to facilitate the extraction [via a handling exception/permission] , and not to give the 9 a chance to immediately disrupt the emerging ball - under the same methodology as 9 now being stopped from stepping over the flanker.

    ** it's similar [in reverse] to the protection 9 gets at ruck/maul time when ruck/maul participants are denied grabbing 9 before the ball is 'clearly' removed.

    least that's how I'm refereeing it.

  8. #38

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    14,669
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1360

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    VM75 see post 2 !

  9. #39

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,018
    Thanks (Received)
    47
    Likes (Received)
    774

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    the scrum half at a ruck can dig etc - but ball clear of the floor is ball out and tackle on surely?

    So #8 bound one armed and picked up with the other is tackle on presumably?

    As #2 said "Answer: It is being applied as scrum over when the ball has left the ground. Same as for receiver at ruck"

    The #8 cannot pick up and stay immune from a tackle merely because he is still bound on surely?

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 03-10-17 at 09:10.

  10. #40
    Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required

    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    6+1
    Join Date
    22 Dec 15
    Posts
    212
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    79

    Default Re: When is the No8 fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    the scrum half at a ruck can dig etc - but ball clear of the floor is ball out and tackle on surely?

    So #8 bound one armed and picked up with the other is tackle on presumably?

    As #2 said "Answer: It is being applied as scrum over when the ball has left the ground. Same as for receiver at ruck"

    The #8 cannot pick up and stay immune from a tackle merely because he is still bound on surely?

    didds
    As soon as he's picked the ball off the floor the scrum is over so if he tries to stay bound to players infront of him we have an offside/obstruction scenario anyway - so he won't want to stay bound and in reality he will want to get away quickly from the base whether he is picking it up from 2nd row or his own feet? Of course he'll be a bit slower if digging further into the scrum, but the further in the ball is, the further the SH has to come around to tackle him, so surely it should offset? I really don't see how this will be a problem.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •