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Thread: Northamptpn v clermont

      
  1. #71

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    Default Re: Northamptpn v clermont

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    You think a player should be off for the rest of the game, even if a top ref mistakenly thought he was unconscious?
    well, we happily accept that a player should be off for the rest of the game if the ref (top or not) thought he deserved a red card - even if in fact the ref was totally wrong. Or an AR as in another thread recently...

    didds

  2. #72

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    Default Re: Northamptpn v clermont

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    well, we happily accept that a player should be off for the rest of the game if the ref (top or not) thought he deserved a red card - even if in fact the ref was totally wrong.
    Slightly different, because in the case of a red card, the Ref really is 100% the "sole judge" and there is no separate neutral assessment. Imagine if every red card at elite level was subject to an immediate pitchside assessment to see if the Ref got it right. If that assessment decided the Ref shouldn't have awarded a red card, surely we would not accept a player be off for the rest of the game then.

  3. #73

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    Default Re: Northamptpn v clermont

    in this incident, when BW announced that Parra was unconscious he WAS the sole judge.
    - He was right on the spot
    - There were no medical staff on the pitch

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Northamptpn v clermont

    Startlingly still unable / unwilling to see the point.

    Time to agree to differ and move on with the simple facts.


    1: The Independent investigation found that the protocols WERE followed.

    2: Man with a little bit of knowledge says protocols were not followed.

    First group had all the information at hand to make their call.

    Second group did not.


    Hmmmmmm.


    Protocols may well be "not fit for purpose" but that is a debate for another day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm out.

  5. #75

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    Default Re: Northamptpn v clermont

    well, let's face it, we are both handicapped by incomplete knowledge, as that's the way the rugby authorities like it
    - neither of us have read the report, as it's not avaialble to the public
    - while we have both read some protocols neither of us can be 100% sure what protocols applied to this specific game, as that's not public either

    So I agree there's little point you and I continuing to trade our opinions.

    Instead we could look at someone who is more informed --

    Gerald Meagher in the Guardian -- key exerpts

    World Rugby’s head injury assessment protocols state if loss of consciousness is suspected by the match officials the player should be “immediately and permanently removed from play”,
    The statement acknowledged “an audible comment from match referee, Ben Whitehouse, at the time of the event may have led to some confusion”, but the review does not address the fact World Rugby protocols mean having made his initial judgment, Whitehouse should not have allowed Parra to return
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...rn-head-injury

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Northamptpn v clermont

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    well, let's face it, we are both handicapped by incomplete knowledge, as that's the way the rugby authorities like it
    - neither of us have read the report, as it's not avaialble to the public
    - while we have both read some protocols neither of us can be 100% sure what protocols applied to this specific game, as that's not public either

    So I agree there's little point you and I continuing to trade our opinions.

    Instead we could look at someone who is more informed --

    Gerald Meagher in the Guardian -- key exerpts





    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...rn-head-injury

    To to be honest without reading the detail, there is wiggle room in the protocol that effectively means while the referee is involved in the process he doesn't necessarily act as final judge.

    So the guardian article isn't correct.


    http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/...ndscape_EN.pdf

  7. #77

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    Default Re: Northamptpn v clermont

    I don't see any wiggle room

    Players displaying obvious on-pitch signs of concussion (Criteria 1, Table 1) are immediately and permanently removed from
    play, and the completion of the off-field screening tool and medical evaluation is not required


    Immediate and permanent removal from play criteria (Criteria 1)
    Confirmed loss of consciousness
    Suspected loss of consciousness


    And there's a very clear flow chart as well.

    Suspicious head impact event directly observed by
    Match official, TD, MDD

    V

    Head impact event
    with immediate/clear
    concussion
    (Criteria 1 indications)

    V

    HIA 1 immediate removal
    criteria (Criteria 1 indications)
    Player is immediately and
    permanently removed from
    the game with a confirmed
    concussion



    I just don't see any wiggle room
    Last edited by crossref; 29-10-17 at 20:10.

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