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Thread: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

      
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    Default Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    After another YC against the French, which probably contributed to the change from a reasonably polished to a pretty ragged looking AB team on the field, what do others think about SBW? It seems that parts of the NZ media are turning against him and even while I admire his ferocity, I still think his league background makes him too much of a liability in big games where he commonly seems to shape up for a shoulder charge or a highish wrap tackle, or in this case, tapping/throwing into touch.

    As for AW's decision making process, I think he got the correct call in the end, but to me it sounded like he was initially thinking YC and 5m penalty rather than YC and PT for the tap/throw into touch.

    Best footage I've found is: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...the-all-blacks

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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post

    As for AW's decision making process, I think he got the correct call in the end, but to me it sounded like he was initially thinking YC and 5m penalty rather than YC and PT for the tap/throw into touch.

    Best footage I've found is: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...the-all-blacks
    If the standard for a PT is definitely then in my opinion the decision was incorrect

    If the standard is probably then also incorrect

    If the standard is possibly then a correct decision.


    Any thoughts on him allowing the French to retake a penalty after they I suspect “inadvertently” tapped the ball directly behind the mark on which he stood and the ABs came forward and made the tackle - his decision was on the basis “he hadn’t moved off the mark”
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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixpat View Post
    Any thoughts on him allowing the French to retake a penalty after they I suspect “inadvertently” tapped the ball directly behind the mark on which he stood and the ABs came forward and made the tackle - his decision was on the basis “he hadn’t moved off the mark”
    Got a time? my stream was pretty bad

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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixpat View Post
    If the standard for a PT is definitely then in my opinion the decision was incorrect

    If the standard is probably then also incorrect

    If the standard is possibly then a correct decision.


    Any thoughts on him allowing the French to retake a penalty after they I suspect “inadvertently” tapped the ball directly behind the mark on which he stood and the ABs came forward and made the tackle - his decision was on the basis “he hadn’t moved off the mark”
    The standard is what is in the law book:
    A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.


    The beam me up Scotty approach (which I disagree with), makes that situation a probable try.

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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by leaguerefaus View Post
    The beam me up Scotty approach (which I disagree with), makes that situation a probable try.
    I think the "beam me up" principal works when tackle/contact related foul play (high, shoulder charge, tripping, etc) has occured, but in this case I think it is excessive. I think many would argue that throwing the ball into touch in goal isn't on a level with much of the other items in section 10.

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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    PT was the correct call by the laws of the game. As others have mentioned, its basically the 'beam me up, Scotty" approach that detirmines whether or not its a PT. SBW got caught out with an instinctual response under pressure based on his diet rugby background.

    Despite a couple of these brain farts I still think he offers much more that is positive and I guess thats why the NZ selectors persist with him.

    I reckon he would be a walk up starter in most sides in the world!

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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    I think the "beam me up" principal works when tackle/contact related foul play (high, shoulder charge, tripping, etc) has occured, but in this case I think it is excessive. I think many would argue that throwing the ball into touch in goal isn't on a level with much of the other items in section 10.
    I would be on board with that interpretation!

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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    The PT decision looked fair to me. I was annoyed by SBW, but happy with the decision.

    If SBW hadn't knocked the ball into touch, I reckon the French player would probably have caught it and grounded the ball in the in-goal.

    I'm not really applying any "beam me up policy" I'm just assuming that SBW doesn't knock the ball away and all else remains equal.

    I'd be interested in understanding the alternative position. Are others saying that that it wasn't a PT because if SBW didn't knock the ball away illegally we can say he would have caught it.
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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    My view is that even if the French player had caught it he was in the air, his momentum was towards the dead ball line which was very proximate and in all probability he would have not been able to ground the ball before going dead.

    My opinion is that there was a higher probability of going dead than there was of getting the ball grounded and therefore at best he possibly not probably would have scored ergo no PT
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    Default Re: Sonny Bill Williams/Sinny Bin Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    I'd be interested in understanding the alternative position. Are others saying that that it wasn't a PT because if SBW didn't knock the ball away illegally we can say he would have caught it.
    I'd say that SBW had a fair chance of catching the ball and forcing it if he didn't knock it dead, but since he is to be removed due to foul play (unfairly in this situation in my opinion) then the French player would have caught it and then it becomes a matter of the interpretation of "probably" - and it looks like its 50:50 as to whether he would have grounded it or not before going TiG

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