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Thread: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

      
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    Default Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    Something came up in a game last week and I have to hold my hand up now as I think I got this wrong.

    Reds v Blues.
    5m attacking scrum to Red. Ball gets quickly to the Red 8's feet and ,they have dominance and it is moving forwards.
    The 8 has 2 hands (only) gripping the 2nd row shirts and is skillfully dribbling the ball forwards.
    I'm more focussed on blue to offend here and miss 8's bind at the time.
    It moves quite quickly and the 8 dives on the ball as its on the goal line. I award a try.
    It was quite a shove. All over in a few seconds.

    The blue captain asks, if, should the 8 not have a proper bind in that situation again, is the scrum over and is he ok to come round and tackle him?
    I dont think he can do that but I should have been quicker to spot the loss of proper bind.
    Now, I'm thinking I should have shouted "use it ! " as the laws say something about "If the 8 unbinds to pick up the ball then he must do so immediately".
    If he then doesnt pick up the ball immediately, what would you give ?

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    This is one of those things that ideally you have already warned him about when he did it earlier, so that it doesn't feel like a gotcha to ping him now

    If it's really the first time he has done it then it is somewhat tricky , how material was it

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    This is one of those things that ideally you have already warned him about when he did it earlier, so that it doesn't feel like a gotcha to ping him now

    If it's really the first time he has done it then it is somewhat tricky , how material was it
    Very material. I awarded a try. Lesson learned.
    I suppose they probably would have scored a push over try anyway if he had maintained just his 1 arm bind. So ,in that sense, it may not have affected the outcome.

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    the laws don't actually seem to apply a sanction for lack of following this requirement!

    20.10
    (c) Hindmost player unbinds. The hindmost player in a scrum is the player whose feet are nearest the team’s own goal line. If the hindmost player unbinds from the scrum with the ball at that player’s feet and picks up the ball, the scrum ends.
    (d)
    When a team has the ball at the number 8’s feet, and is trying to move forward but is not succeeding in doing so, the referee will call “use-it” once the ball has been at the number 8’s feet for a reasonable amount of time (3-5 seconds). The team must then use the ball immediately


    Thing is awarding a re-scrum gives that #8 two bites of the cherry..

    didds

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post

    If it's really the first time he has done it then it is somewhat tricky , how material was it
    According to the OP he scored from it so I'd say MAJORLY material - IF the agreement is that an unbound #8 with the ball at his feet but failing to pick it up means the ball can be poached. Other than the oppo didn;t actually try and take the ball (fear of PT because of an unusual/unsure situation?]. But not we are in the very dodgy area of "if the oppo don't try is it now not material" stuff - because we don;t know whey the oppo are not trying something.

    ??

    didds

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrouchTPEngage View Post
    Very material. I awarded a try. Lesson learned.
    I suppose they probably would have scored a push over try anyway if he had maintained just his 1 arm bind. So ,in that sense, it may not have affected the outcome.

    except if there is clarity over what the defending side can do with a chariot riding but legally unbound #8 with the ball at his feet the outcome may have been very different.



    didds

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    Ouch! Tricky one for you. Don't lose any sleep over awarding the try as a. your focus is on Blue and b. it sounds like the try was going to be scored anyway.

    However, Blue skipper has a point. Had the scrum ended? By inserting "and picks up the ball" in 20.10(c) the law has left a gap. If hindmost unbinds and doesn't pick up the ball the only sanction is PK for not maintaining a bind. That would have been popular.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ouch! Tricky one for you. Don't lose any sleep over awarding the try as a. your focus is on Blue and b. it sounds like the try was going to be scored anyway.

    However, Blue skipper has a point. Had the scrum ended? By inserting "and picks up the ball" in 20.10(c) the law has left a gap. If hindmost unbinds and doesn't pick up the ball the only sanction is PK for not maintaining a bind. That would have been popular.

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    Yes the decision was important .. but I meant how material was the binding .. there is a scale of not binding from barely perceptible through to obvious from the far touchline ..

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    If ball is on try line , i would say scrum is over any way . And try is good .
    I would say had 8 completely un bound before pack gets to try line , you would of seen it , and their 9 would of come round and tackled .
    Sounds like good try scored .

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    Default Re: Ball at 8's feet. His bind changes into only hands-on. What should you do ?

    If the 8 is not bound and the ball is at his feet before the scrum reaches the line then scrum is over, the ball is out and forwards are offside if they interfere in play. So if they continue to plough a path to the goal line the best call would be accidental offside, scrum 5 defending team. Penalty against attackers seems OTT to me.
    Chris Johnson

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