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Thread: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post
    How many times have you PK a fat prop whose taken 2 extra steps when you said stop only for them to be run onside immediately?? None I bet. Why? Because they had no material affect while offside. I bet Okeefes never done that either.

    I now look forward to seeing many more test players being PK'd for offside for the 2 momentum steps before being run onside by an onside

    player *end sarcasm.
    except of course Hooper's offside WAS entirely material??

    didds

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    Was it really? What was so material while he was offside for those 2 steps?

    Yes he was off side in GP...and in front of kicker. He realises it and then starts to pull up...but he cant at that speed stop instantaneously and so within those 2 steps Kerobeti (?), who is onside, gases it and gets in front of Hooper. Hooper then gets 5m behind kerobeti and runs in support....at which point the ball takes a wicked bounce and Hooper cleans up the scraps.

    Im fine with it being pulled up as offside...but you see that sort of offside at just about every kick in GP and we allow the offside player a couple of steps to pull up until they are put onside. Every weekend and at tests.That should have applied here.

    But I accept Ill be seen as a bias oz arguing against the decision just as you are a bias pom advocating for the no try.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    LOL.

    Not really - I would be saying the same thing had it been an english try. The bottom line is it is material because those two steps etc meant his momentum and direction were maintained enabling him to get to the position to score afterwards. If he had fulfilled what the law demands then he is unlikely to have been in a position to score - IMO, and I appreciate YMMV... thing is we'll never know.

    had he not scored and play continued then I don't suppose he would have been PKd.

    didds

    didds

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    Ok. So by that logic Hooper could never rejoin play then until the ball is dead otherwise he's having a material effect?
    (Yes I know im being silly and thats not what youd advocate)

    So why do they have this in the law then?
    "
    Action by the kicker or other onside player. When the kicker, or team-mate who was level with or behind the kicker when (or after) the ball was kicked, runs in front of the offside player, the player is put onside. When running forward, the team-mate may be in touch or touch-in-goal, but that team-mate must return to the playing area to put the player onside."

    That happened to Hooper. If okeefe penalised hooler straight away I would accept it...but he didnt. Hooper was played onside and so had a right to be in the play 20m down the field...surely???
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    From a 1 eyed english supporter, who was at the game...

    I think this is a situation where, technically the call was correct, but the empathy of the call was entirely wrong.

    If you PK Hooper in that situation, then there are 100s of offsides in a game that should be called.

    My take: Yes he was offside. But he was played back on - I will say he was running "sideways" not forward, he wasn't close to playing the ball next, and didn't impede anyone. So play on. Then he scores. As I said on the day - think Aus were very hard done on that one.

    The second disallowed try (crossing one) - for me that was clear and obvious crossing, BUT would love to see if Robshaw was onside when he tried to make the tackle. This was the original call to the TMO to check, that got all confused, and eventually got the crossing decision. Not seen a good enough replay to show that.

    But generally from teh game - it was a good advert for why the Ref should give a decision, and then have to see reason to overturn it. The TMOs went on for AGES. Far too long. If it is not clear and obvious to overturn, stick with the decision on the field. NFL has this right (The confirmed v stands v overturned)

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    Quote Originally Posted by CrouchTPEngage View Post
    Thanks Ian. Could you perhaps elaborate on why it wasnt ?
    I kind of agree that it would be a hard-sell but , according to law wording, it looks like it satisfies the criteria for offside under the 10m law.
    The ball appears to have been kicked ahead and lands about 1-2 m ahead Hooper.

    Yours,

    Devils Advocate :-)

    Ok, so there are a couple of important aspects of the 10 law

    1. It is usually applied when an opponent of the kicker is waiting to play the ball

    2. A player offside under the 10M Law cannot be played onside by any action of the opponents - Law 11.5 (b) - while a player who is Offside in General play can - Laws 11.3. Consequently, a player can can comply with the 10M Law by retiring 10M from the player waiting to play the ball, or from where the ball might land, but he can still be offside in General Play.

    3. It is very rare to see the 10M law applied against an attacking team close to their opponent's goal line (I've certainly never seen it). Its usually applied in midfield when the ball is kicked over team mates ahead of the ball.
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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    [QUOTE=FlipFlop;338429]From a 1 eyed english supporter, who was at the game...

    I think this is a situation where, technically the call was correct, but the empathy of the call was entirely wrong.
    QUOTE]

    100% agree with this. If BOK had awarded the try and got on with it I think it would have been the best outcome overall. Yes, there might have been the odd niggle about it from some England supporters/coaching team after, but not the same level of debate in my view. England players certainly seemed to accept a try had been scored initially, as did all the fans I was sitting with, as do I again when I watch it in full speed on tv replays. Right in law is not always the best decision!

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Ok, so there are a couple of important aspects of the 10 law

    1. It is usually applied when an opponent of the kicker is waiting to play the ball

    2. A player offside under the 10M Law cannot be played onside by any action of the opponents - Law 11.5 (b) - while a player who is Offside in General play can - Laws 11.3. Consequently, a player can can comply with the 10M Law by retiring 10M from the player waiting to play the ball, or from where the ball might land, but he can still be offside in General Play.

    3. It is very rare to see the 10M law applied against an attacking team close to their opponent's goal line (I've certainly never seen it). Its usually applied in midfield when the ball is kicked over team mates ahead of the ball.
    Thanks,mate. That explained it really well !

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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    [QUOTE=Thunderhorse1986;338437]
    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    From a 1 eyed english supporter, who was at the game...

    I think this is a situation where, technically the call was correct, but the empathy of the call was entirely wrong.
    QUOTE]

    100% agree with this. If BOK had awarded the try and got on with it I think it would have been the best outcome overall. Yes, there might have been the odd niggle about it from some England supporters/coaching team after, but not the same level of debate in my view. England players certainly seemed to accept a try had been scored initially, as did all the fans I was sitting with, as do I again when I watch it in full speed on tv replays. Right in law is not always the best decision!
    but hey, why don't we just throw the baby out with the bath water?

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Eng vs Aus - Disallowed Hooper try

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    My take: Yes he was offside. But he was played back on - I will say he was running "sideways" not forward
    I think that calling his movement 'sideways' is being a little generous. Looking at the playback, he advances from being a good 5m (the directional stripes on the grass are 5m wide) short of the 22 at the time of the kick to being just about on it by the time he is put onside. That's a significant/material amount of progress up the field.

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