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Thread: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    TBH - I dunno. I can see why its dangerous play potentially and can;t disagree calling it so.

    But equally its an instinctive (I think!) response to the grubber. If he'd gone head and hands first I doubt it could be called a charge down (ball not on way up etc) so as somebody asked above what IS a defense against a grubber kick then? And is throwing one's head into the proximity of an oppo boot not dangerous play also?

    At least no-one has yet said its because of his natural regression to when he played football (soccer) when he was 11 years old...

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 27-11-17 at 13:11.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelflife View Post
    Its a pen for me straight away for the feet up block.

    On another day thats a leg breaker and a red card, theres no place for it in the game as it will eventually end in tears.
    How long after a grubber does the opponent need to wait to kick the ball in open play? I don't see this as a charge down, just a kick, then another kick, just in really close proximity.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    He has done this previously when playing for Saracens. The club were written to and warned that should Itoje make contact with an opponent it could result in a red card. It's a matter or risk vs reward. For me the risk would be too great.

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    So what is the defense against a grubber, accepting that tis slifing tackle style solutioin is not a good idea.?

    genuine query :-)

    Do we accept that if a goalkeeper dive with hands/arms is the same as a chargedown as a knock on is very likely after all?

    And what if an attacking player trips over the outstretched arms, or makes contact with the diver's head?

    didds

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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    How long after a grubber does the opponent need to wait to kick the ball in open play? I don't see this as a charge down, just a kick, then another kick, just in really close proximity.
    There is no time limit of course, but we still penalise acts that have the potential to cause injury.

    We allow players to ankle tap a ball carrier, but we penalise them if they foot-trip him.. Why do you think that is, after all, the result is the same; the ball carrier is brought down without being tackled? Kick the ball by all means, but stay on your feet to do it.

    I dislike the idea that you allow risky tactics like Itoje's until someone gets it wrong; then you have a serious, potential season-ending leg injury for the victim, and a RC for the perpetrator. This results in one of my pet hates, outcome-driven decision making. Better to make his action an infringement from the get-go. Technically it was an infringement anyway - he went off his feet and played the ball This is not covered by Law 14, which allows a player to go to ground to take possession of the ball. Kicking the ball is not taking possession.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 27-11-17 at 19:11.
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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    We allow players to ankle tap a ball carrier, but we penalise them if they foot-trip him.. Why do you think that is, after all, the result is the same; the ball carrier is brought down without being tackled?
    I assume it is because a hand is more vulnerable than a foot and is very unlikely to cause serious harm. The tap tackler is the one at risk.
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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    I assume it is because a hand is more vulnerable than a foot and is very unlikely to cause serious harm. The tap tackler is the one at risk.
    It was a rhetorical question OB.., I was expecting thePercy to reach that conclusion without actually answering the question, but yes, the risk of injury is to the tapper in a tap tackle, but its to the ball carrier in a foot trip.
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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    Same goes for head near a kicking foot. Dangerous, yes, but for the player who chooses to dive at the ball.

  9. #39

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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    so its OK to dive head first towards a grubber?

    Just checking.

    and if the kicker kicks the diver's head? Or trips over the diver's torso/arms?

    didds

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    Default Re: Itoje chargedown v Samoa

    Don't think there's any situation* in RU that merits a player going in feet first.
    Can see that going head first towards a grubber is dangerous / foolhardy too.
    (*Especially in showbiz rugby where we don't even have hooking in set scrums and everybody handles the ball in rucks.)

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