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Thread: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

      
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    Default Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    I hear a rumble that there's going to be a change to the laws regarding uncontested scrums at international level ONLY

    Potentially bringing back the old "man off ruling" after the Welsh debacle v Georgia

    Anyone else heard anything about this???
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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    I don't think man off makes any difference in that particular scenario. If there is no player available to come on, then that's it either way. (ie you are not forced to take off a second player )

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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    But that could be the change, back to the "man off ruling" i.e. if you cause uncontested scrums (injured YC etc.) you take another player with you, so you're playing with 13, BUT you still have to have 8 in the scrum.
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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBFG View Post
    But that could be the change, back to the "man off ruling" i.e. if you cause uncontested scrums (injured YC etc.) you take another player with you, so you're playing with 13, BUT you still have to have 8 in the scrum.
    But that is not what happens with man off.

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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But that is not what happens with man off.
    That was my understanding of what it was, before it was ditched?
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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    This? A flow chart will be forthcoming.


    UNCONTESTED SCRUMS23 PLAYERS
    Law 3.6 UNCONTESTED SCRUMS
    (a) Scrums will become uncontested if either team cannot field a suitable trained front row
    or if the referee orders so.
    (d) In a squad of 23 players a player whose departure has caused the referee to order
    uncontested scrums cannot be replaced.
    LAW AMENDMENT TRIAL:
    (h) Uncontested scrums because of a sending off, temporary suspension or injury must be
    played with eight players.
    Exceptions:
    Temporary replacement - blood injury:
    1. When the referee orders uncontested scrums after a front row player is
    temporary replaced for a blood injury, the team responsible for the uncontested
    scrums does not lose a player.
    2. If the temporary replacement becomes permanent after 15 minutes the team
    lose a player – the temporary replacement must leave the field.
    3. The team must form a scrum with eight players.
    Temporary replacement – HIA (head injury assessment):
    1. When the referee orders uncontested scrums after a front row player is
    temporary replaced for a HIA, the team responsible for the uncontested scrums
    does not lose a player.
    2. If the temporary replacement becomes permanent after 10 minutes the team
    lose a player – the temporary replacement must leave the field.
    3. The team must form a scrum with eight players.
    Player injured because of foul play:
    1. When the referee orders uncontested scrums after a front row player is injured
    following foul play, the team responsible for the uncontested scrums does not
    lose a player.
    2. The team must form a scrum with eight players.
    Scenario 1.
    During the match a team replaced both their props through injury. The replacement TH gets
    injured.
    1. If the team cannot field a suitably trained front row uncontested scrums must be
    ordered. The injured TH player cannot be replaced. The team lose a player.
    2. The remaining front row substitutes (hooker/LH) must be used in the front row
    of the uncontested scrums and another player must be nominated to leave the
    field.
    3. The team plays with 14 players until the end of the game.
    4. Both teams must form with eight players in the scrum.
    Scenario 2.
    During the match a team replaced both their props through injury. The replacement TH is
    temporary suspended (Y/C). At the next scrum awarded in the match the following applies:
    1. If the team cannot field a suitably trained front row, uncontested scrums must
    be ordered. The temporary suspended TH player cannot be replaced.
    2. The temporary suspended TH caused uncontested scrums to be ordered
    therefore the team lose a player. The team must nominate a player to leave the
    field.
    3. The remaining substitute (hooker) must be used in the front row of the
    uncontested scrums and another player must be nominated to leave the field to
    allow the hooker to come on to the field to play.
    4. The team plays with 13 players for the remainder of the temporary suspension
    time of the TH.
    5. Both teams must form uncontested scrums with eight players in the scrum.
    6. At the end of the TH temporary suspension time the replacement hooker must
    leave the field.
    7. The TH and the two nominated players must return to the field to play.
    8. The game continues with contested scrums.
    Scenario 3.
    During the match a team replaced both their props through injury. The replacement TH is
    permanently suspended (R/C). At the next scrum awarded in the match the following
    applies:
    1. If the team cannot field a suitable front row, uncontested scrums must be
    ordered. The permanently suspended TH player cannot be replaced.
    2. The permanent suspended TH caused uncontested scrums to be ordered
    therefore the team lose a player. The team must nominate a player to leave the
    field.
    3. The remaining substitute (hooker) must be used in the front row of the
    uncontested scrums. Another player must be nominated to leave the field to
    allow the hooker to come on to the field to play.
    4. The team plays with 13 players for the remainder of the match.
    5. Both teams must form with eight players in the scrum.
    Scenario 4.
    During the match a team replaced a prop (LH) and the hooker through injury. The TH prop is
    called from the field for a HIA. The TH prop is temporarily replaced by the remaining
    substitution TH prop. The temporary replacement TH prop gets injured before the TH prop
    (HIA) is cleared to play. The following applies:
    1. The team cannot field a suitably trained front row and does not have any front
    row players left that can play in the match. Uncontested scrums must be
    ordered.
    2. The injured TH prop can be temporary replaced by any available player - the
    uncontested scrums is caused by the TH prop that was called for HIA. The team
    does not lose a player.
    3. The team continue to play with the number of forward players at the time when
    uncontested scrums were ordered.
    4. Both teams must form with eight players in the scrum.
    5. If the TH prop is cleared to play within the allowed time the player must return
    to the field of play immediately and replace the temporary replacement.
    6. The game continues with contested scrums.
    The above also applies in the case of a blood injury.
    Comments:
    1. The front row tactical substitutions during the match does not influence the
    application of the uncontested scrum laws at the time uncontested scrums are
    ordered.
    2. Front row players who are temporarily substitutions in the match and whom are
    temporarily suspended or permanently suspended does not change or influence
    the application of the uncontested scrum laws at the time when uncontested
    scrums are ordered.
    3. When a player is tactically replaced, and subsequently develops an injury, that
    change must be communicated to the 4/5 at that time, having been verified by
    the independent match doctor, where one is appointed.
    4. It is of high importance that the movement of players during the match are
    meticulously monitored and the reasons for changes properly documented with
    all relevant detail.
    5. It is advised that a no 6 official should be considered to specifically fulfil the role
    of notational analyst to document all information in this regard.
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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    Ah....

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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    My recollection is that "man off" simply meant that if a front row player was injured and no fit replacement was available, you went to uncontested scrums, but the injured player could not be replaced (14 man team). It did not mean you had to take an extra person off (13 man team).

    IIRC it was intended to counter the practice that some teams were believed to indulge in, namely claiming uncontested scrums when it was deemed to be to their advantage.

    "Man off" was one of those short-hand phrases that it was easy to misunderstand.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    Hi simon .
    That certainly is a lot of words , to take in .
    What year did same come from .
    Its a bit of a tongue twister

    My understanding i beleive is same / similar as OB
    That if front row goes off . & there is no replacement = they play with 14.

    If 15 players on field & a prop goes off yellow card & then we have a scrum . ( 14 lads on field )
    If another prop isnt available through injury / suspension .
    But a hooker is on bench .
    The hooker has to come on , still uncontested & another player goes off because hooker came on .
    So we still have 14 players on field .

    Above reads to me ( from your long list )
    That another guy also needs to leave = 13 players . ????.
    Or am i reading it wrong .

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    Default Re: Changes to Uncontested Scrum Law

    That got issued to USA referees on Sunday. On behalf of WR.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

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