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Thread: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

      
  1. #21
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    Hi Strange and welcome to forum.

    I hope that you find this place a welcome and useful resource as well as a helpful sounding board. There are many levels of experience and different nationalities here.

    You raise a good question.

    In simple terms a MAUL can NEVER become a RUCK and neither can it become a tackle.

    In the situation you describe, the Blue player has no need to release the Red BC and what you have is an UNSUCCESSFUL end to a MAUL. Result = scrum restart, turnover ball (unless of course it has moved to 'in goal' and then it is "BALL HELD UP, SCRUM 5, ATTACKING BALL")

    Be careful with the MAUL.

    As others have said, it worthwhile calling "MAUL!" when you deem it is formed so ALL players are aware. Locate the BALL and make yourself aware of whether the BC is wrapped or just held. That way if the MAUL goes to ground (Legally) then you will either blow for UNSUCCESSFUL end to a Maul or give a few moments for the ball to emerge on the BC side. Once you have located the ball you can then concentrate on ensuring players join correctly and that all non-participants are on-side. Keep talking to the Half-Back and let him know when you are looking for him to play the ball away (2nd stop).


    Relax and be happy )
    The part in red is flat out wrong!

    After a maul has formed if the ball is played to the ground with all players still on their feet then the maul has become a ruck. And the ruck may be driven forward without time restriction. I agree that this is a rare event but that is because players, when they get tied up with the ball, try to go to ground instead of forcing the ball down to ground. Having said that I expect to hear some derisive comments that it never happens. True, but it's a product of poor coaching not a function of law.

    If a BC goes to ground with the ball and releases it the maul has become a ruck with a very short life expectancy.

  2. #22
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    Maybe rarer in 15 aside game, but quite common under the RFU NROP, with max 2 man per side mauls at U10, and 3 man at U11, it's very easy for that to go to ground especially if one side gets a drive on (albeit they only have 5 seconds!) but with so few bodies involved it's not unusual for it to become a very quick ruck with a sharp call of use it - certainly if someone is sharp enough

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    I'd say its not so much "poor coaching" as if the BC has the wherewithall to get himself and the ball to gtropund the likelihood is that the bal;l will be presnted for the s/h to p[ass it away easily.

    Where a BC going to ground ends up with a turnover is usually when the BC is not incontrol of the reason why he went to ground... maul collapses through its own "monentum" sort of thing


    IME.

    didds

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    Not that uncommon in youth games, IME.

    You'll get a BC wriggling enough that he manages to get to ground with nobody holding him, then presenting the ball back.

    IMO it's something that could do with a review. A law saying either that the BC going to ground constitutes an unsuccessful end to a maul, or removing the ball hitting the deck constituting a successful end would simplify the situation and stop the things collapsing as frequently.

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    The part in red is flat out wrong!

    After a maul has formed if the ball is played to the ground with all players still on their feet then the maul has become a ruck. And the ruck may be driven forward without time restriction. I agree that this is a rare event but that is because players, when they get tied up with the ball, try to go to ground instead of forcing the ball down to ground. Having said that I expect to hear some derisive comments that it never happens. True, but it's a product of poor coaching not a function of law.

    If a BC goes to ground with the ball and releases it the maul has become a ruck with a very short life expectancy.
    No it is not, ChrisR. It is Maul that has gone to ground.
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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    So another situation that needs the ambiguosity removed from it in the new laws rewrite.

    I'm not holding my breath.

    Didds

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    Not that uncommon in youth games, IME.

    You'll get a BC wriggling enough that he manages to get to ground with nobody holding him, then presenting the ball back.
    In my book that is a successful end to a maul and, as you say, is quite common.

    If, for some reason, the BC then is not able to present the ball back (maybe a team mate's body part gets in the way), what would you give as the restart? That would be a turnover scrum for me which highlights still a maul.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    The general thing I see here is that as soon as a BC's progress is halted he wants to get to the ground as soon as possible - last thing anyone wants is a maul that they didn't deliberately set up (ie at a lineout). So we get shouts from the BC's teammates of "get him down" (yes I know, technically they are collapsing the maul) and shouts from the defenders of "hold him up"

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    In my book that is a successful end to a maul and, as you say, is quite common. If, for some reason, the BC then is not able to present the ball back (maybe a team mate's body part gets in the way), what would you give as the restart? That would be a turnover scrum for me which highlights still a maul.
    Sorry, but if the BC has gone to ground and more importantly managed to get the ball on the ground, I would say it's now a Ruck. If there's an unsuccesful end to that Ruck, there's no turnover.

    17.5 Successful end to a maul
    A maul ends successfully when :
    the ball or a player with the ball leaves the maul
    the ball is on the ground
    the ball is on or over the goal line.

    Provided there are two opposing players on their feet and in physical contact, we now have a Ruck.
    Last edited by Taff; 4 Days Ago at 23:12.

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    Default Re: Maul - Ball Carrier going to ground = tackle?

    I wouldn't. Cos that is clearly not how its blown. At all levels.


    didds

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