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Thread: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    You've got to have a bit of empathy in these situations.

    The defender has gone in to grab the ball as the attacker is trying to place it, which is a perfectly fair (and difficult) thing to do.

    If the attacker is 2 metres away, that's one thing, but when it's difficult to judge if the ball has grazed the plane of goal line penalising it is making a rod for your own back.

    As I said earlier, it's like trying to hold up the BC just short of the line.
    You go to the TMO who comes back and says "the ball was grounded short". You don't then say "well technically the ball wasn't over the goal line so the defenders had to release the BC, so it's a penalty (or penalty try)". You use a minimum of empathy and give an attacking scrum.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    Hi docy .
    Im all for empathy for lots of circumstances in rugby .

    But there are far too many infingements by deffending team , to allow try . In above clip

    You wouldnt let it happen on half way line .
    So there can be no lowering of rules , because its close to try line .. ( in fact empathy might allow vice versa )

    On a slightly different note .
    I do think that tmo protocol is not same stance in every match .
    Now i understand no 2 refs are the same .
    And some clubs welcome some refs more than others .

    But i think tmo , should have a tick box to cover times when they are requested .
    Forward pass or not ,,box ticked
    Off side at last pass ,,box tickex .
    Off feet ,, box ticked..

    Etc etc .
    We should also possibly have all questions where doubt about grounding be ,,try or no try please .
    And maybe let tmo make final call .
    I think the proffesional game is fairly good entertainment ,,but some refs need to stop being so reliant on tmo ,,and if they call tmo ,,then tmo can only have last say .

  3. #13

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy View Post
    if they call tmo ,,then tmo can only have last say .
    Often they request the video and make their own mind up before the TMO makes any comment. I see no problem with that. I don't think we need to be overly prescriptive. The two are colleagues and should be allowed to work things out between themselves.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    I had a pretty similar situation to this on NYE:

    Black centre makes a break, gets tackled short of the line, reaches out to score and grounds the ball a couple of inches short of the goal line (how I'd kept up with him full as I was of mince pies, I'll never know).

    A defender slides in, grabs the ball and gets back to his feet in one movement, before being 'tackled' in in goal.

    It didn't occur to me that I should penalise the defender and the players were happy with me awarding an attacking scrum.

    It got me thinking, after the game, about a rule of thumb to deal with these situations sensibly, so how's this:
    If the attacking player is trying to ground the ball in in goal, look for reasons not to penalise the defending team; if they're trying to recycle the ball, play as normal

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    That seems right to me
    But in the middle of the field , would you have penalised him ?

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    That seems right to me
    But in the middle of the field , would you have penalised him ?
    I'm not sure, TBH, but I'm not going to worry about it too much as I've never seen anyone reach forward to place the ball in the middle of the field.

    If he'd placed it back to be recycled, then I'd certainly penalise - and I'd do so wherever they are on the field.

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    Good point

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    Placing the ball by the BC is an option they have after the tackle, so a view could be if the placing was short of the line, it is tackle over and back to open play. In open play a player can go off his feet to gather the ball. I think this would be OK if the ball was in front of the ball carrier, definitely in from the side if they did it at the ball carrier's knees/feet, but as DocY says placing the ball forward does not happen much in midfield.

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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    That seems right to me
    But in the middle of the field , would you have penalised him ?
    It's the context of last ditch defending that 'permits' this event to happen only at such locations - Mpafee

  10. #20
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    Default Re: on the ground in the in goal .. or not ...

    Penalty and yellow card. Not a clear PT as ball carrier may have lost ball prior to it being stripped.

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