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Thread: Romain vs TMO

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Romain vs TMO

    Bit of a Fuster Cluck really
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  2. #12

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    Default Re: Romain vs TMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    The system is flawed.
    .
    How about we lobby WR to have it changed then?????????
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  3. #13

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    Default Re: Romain vs TMO

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniRef View Post
    RP had clearly seen what he wanted, so should have interjected before TMO could give his answer. He could have asked "I can't see grounding; can you?".
    +1. I don't like that the Ref is required to ask a specific question eg "Try? Yes or no?" I reckon they should talk freely.

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniRef View Post
    ... Net result is he made the TMO look a plonker. Not good for rugby.
    Well sort of, but if you are an AR or a TMO you accept that it's the Refs call. Poite could have been a bit more diplomatic, but at the end of the day it's his decision to make.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Romain vs TMO

    A number of years ago I had to referee the team that I was coaching in a crucial division match. All too frequent an occurrence here.

    Our winger went into the corner of goal smother tackled by the ops but ended up on top. The TJ, an experienced player from the ops, was on the spot, on all fours and only five feet away. He gave me the 'held up' signal but I awarded the try coz I figured some part of the ball had to be grounded.

    The TJ said some unkind things, threw down his flag (after telling me what I could do with it) and ran off. To this day I think that the ball probably was grounded but the correct decision should have been a 5m as I hadn't seen it grounded.

    So I think Romain was right but the question could have been: "Was there clear grounding?"

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Romain vs TMO

    Cue debate on the roles of a TJ v AR in various countries!

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  6. #16

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    Default Re: Romain vs TMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    The system is flawed.

    These days when the ref goes upstairs, all he is really asking for is the opportunity to wtach it again on the big screen. I don't know why we bother with a TMO apart from the "check, check" behind play foul play calls.

    I think RL does it better. If the ref refers it upstairs, he should leave it to upstairs to decide.
    Agree 100%.
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  7. #17

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    Default Re: Romain vs TMO

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    Agree 100%.

    So do I. Once the referee calls the TMO, the TMO should have the responsibility to make the decision, and that decision should stand.... this works in cricket, and in RL. No reason why it should not work in RU.

    Just a couple of points on this. Historically, referees never had to actually sight the grounding before the advent of the TMO... how many of us old timers here have seen or awarded tries resulting from a rumbling, rolling maul when we didn't actually see the ball touch the ground and/or didn't have a clear idea of exactly where the ball was?

    To be honest, I thought RP's decision was wrong. I cannot see any way that the ball would not have touched the ground. We lose sight of it about half a ball width above the ground, and there was no-one other than the player holding the ball between the ball and the camera in a position to get a hand under it.

    Hindsight is always 20/20, but IMO RP was poorly positioned to make the call. What he should have done is whistled, looked to see if the ball was on the ground or if a hand was under it.

    If the hand was under it, no try 5m scrum attacking throw in.

    If the ball is on the ground, go to the TMO and ask the second question...."any reason....?"
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  8. #18

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    Question Re: Romain vs TMO

    Hello,
    To be honest I also thought he got that call wrong. Was there any clear and obvious reason a try could not be awarded? I don’t see by what stretch of the imagination RP thinks there could be a doubt about that grounding. He has certainly awarded far more dubious groundings in the Top 14, on the basis the referee is the sole judge. TV rugby will often award a try to the forward most likely to have scored based on the congratulations of teammates walking away after those rolling mauls end up in-goal. Not based on who was seen to have grounded the ball. When a collective maul grounds the ball, there is far greater chance of a hand or knee getting under the ball than in this situation being discussed.

    Romain Poîte earlier in the match, overruled his AR to disallow a Leinster try. After just 4 minutes of play the visitors crossed the whitewash. TMO is called to check last pass leading to the score. (See highlights)
    http://site.epcreng.soticcloud.net/m...media&id=26513

    AR is well sighted on the last pass and seems happy there is no foot in touch.
    Yet RP with an the goal camera angle from the TMO, disallows the (opening) try. Fair enough the decision didn’t affect the outcome of the game, but I wonder about the protocol.

    My question isn’t so much was what happened clear and obvious? Folks can make up their own minds about whether tthe player’s foot clearly touched the line, or not. However, what is the point in appointing ARs at all, if the match referee systematically uses the TMO, despite the AR keeping his flag down?

    I think Dickie has a point too, if the match referee wasn’t sighted, then he must trust his team of 4. By using the video footage to undermind the decision of other members of that team of 4, he is doing future match officials no favours. He could be said to be making a bit of a habit of overruling his colleagues.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 16-12-17 at 18:12.
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  9. #19

    Promises to Referee in France
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    Arrow Re: Romain vs TMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    In hindsight he asked the wrong question, if it had been "any reason I can't ...." then a different outcome, and for a lot of us out in the sticks where you have no doubt that it's been grounded under control then it's also a try. Part of the reason I don't like the "Try Yes or No" question, removes too much from the referees hands.

    Intrigued though, what is the protocol, for that question, *can* Romain overall the TMO if he doesn't like the answer - am assuming so watching this!
    spot on. In yesterday evening’s Tigers v Munster clash, the referee asks “Any reason why I may not award the try?”
    See around the 1 minute mark in these highlights.



    No grounding can be seen, but it is clear that the ball carrier Red8 goes to ground over the try line. The laws of the game are supposed to make it easy for the referee, not make it more difficult than it needs be. Interesting to see that the Frenchman accepts the TMO’s finding, unlike Monsieur Poîte.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 18-12-17 at 10:12.
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