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Thread: Advantage after time expired

      
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    Rugby Club Member CliveG's Avatar

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    Default Advantage after time expired

    New ref this season so apologies if this a dumb question. I have searched this forum for an answer but I'm now more confused than ever, so....

    Time is 80.01 - Red are 1 point up - Red knock on

    Blue gather the ball - do I now play advantage until the ball next goes dead ?

    At what point would I decide no advantage has come and therefore end the game ?

    If blue don't gather the ball from Reds knock on after time has expired, do I end the game immediately so Red benefit from their 'error' - clearly if its a deliberate knock on then PK to blue and carry on, but if at least looks accidental ?

    Would any of these things change if you have been asked about time left to play and responded by saying time has expired ?

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Hi Clive & welcome to the fraternity!

    Blue gather the ball - do I now play advantage until the ball next goes dead ?
    Yes

    At what point would I decide no advantage has come and therefore end the game ?
    If Blue then offend (eg knock on) during the advantage period, you would blow the whistle, make a point of looking at your watch, and end the game. Of course, if Blue don't offend, you'd call 'advantage over' and the game continues until the next stoppage.

    If blue don't gather the ball from Reds knock on after time has expired, do I end the game immediately so Red benefit from their 'error' - clearly if its a deliberate knock on then PK to blue and carry on, but if at least looks accidental ?
    Yes. So, for example, Red knock on and Red regather - blow full time. But first make sure that there is zero chance of Blue getting the ball.
    What can be trickier is if there is a situation such as a stationary maul. As sure as eggs, at the instant you blow the whistle, the ball will pop out


    Would any of these things change if you have been asked about time left to play and responded by saying time has expired ?
    No
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveG View Post
    New ref this season so apologies if this a dumb question. I have searched this forum for an answer but I'm now more confused than ever, so....

    Time is 80.01 - Red are 1 point up - Red knock on
    dont let score help decide any out come

    Blue gather the ball - do I now play advantage until the ball next goes dead ?
    as dickie said , yes

    At what point would I decide no advantage has come and therefore end the game
    this is different to a knock on , where you can go back for a scrum .
    so as dickie said , unless they now also knock on , then blow whistle , game over
    . If blue regather ball , shout advantage over ?????
    However If the blue team you have given advantage to are under strong attack and they are struggling to keep immediate possesion of ball , just take a breather and let it play out .
    If they can keep ball for maybe 1 or 2 phases and , they are able to play ,,i would call advantage over .

    If they kicked ball away under pressure , from immediate knock on .And ball got regathered by opposition . I would blow up for same .
    Its a judgement call , you will be able to call on day .
    Remember if red knocks on , they cant be rewarded from blue , not being able to tactitacally or terrotorial make gains .



    If blue don't gather the ball from Reds knock on after time has expired, do I end the game immediately so Red benefit from their 'error' - clearly if its a deliberate knock on then PK to blue and carry on, but if at least looks accidental ?

    Would any of these things change if you have been asked about time left to play and responded by saying time has expired ?
    good question .
    The fact that if there was time for a scrum , or not .
    Shouldnt have any bearing of how you feel advantage has been gained or not .
    Remember , the team who knocked on , are not entitled to gain an advantage from the opposition team who didnt gain their entitled advantage .

    Ill add .
    If whilst advantage for knock is being played .
    Dont relax your penalty advantage ,,if red offending team , were to now collapse a maul , go in off feet & material effect etc etc ..let blue know they now have penalty advantage ..
    If its a mess , simply blow whistle . Give mark for penalty & go again .

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    I think it very much IS different after the whistle has gone , and depending on the score

    In this scenario red knock on, and blue gather I would call adv over straight away as blue have gained the enormous tactical advantage of the game not ending ..

    That would not be the case if time hadn't expired

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    I say play advantage as for any other situation.

    If you call it straight away, you risk the ball going backwards ten metres, getting knocked on by blue and red regather to score; if you were playing "normal" advantage, you'd blow up for no advantage and come back for the scrum (ending the game in this case) - so you run the risk of rewarding red for their mistake.

    I certainly wouldn't referee it differently according to the score (although if it's 80-0 most players are probably just waiting for the final whistle).

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    If you are playing advantage to blue and they knock on, you can't play on. It has to be back for the scrum (and in this case game ends)

    I think it would be very odd to ignore the time and the score
    Red knock on, blue (one point behind) gather and attack, but twenty seconds later are still behind the gain line ... During the game you'd now say 'no adv , back to the scrum. If time has elapsed you should already have said adv over, as just continuing to play is the advantage they blue want and need

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    If you are playing advantage to blue and they knock on, you can't play on. It has to be back for the scrum (and in this case game ends)

    I think it would be very odd to ignore the time and the score
    Red knock on, blue (one point behind) gather and attack, but twenty seconds later are still behind the gain line ... During the game you'd now say 'no adv , back to the scrum. If time has elapsed you should already have said adv over, as just continuing to play is the advantage they blue want and need
    The problem with this approach is you assume you know what the team wants/needs from the result. With bonus points/points difference/tries scored etc all potentially to be taken into account, I think there is a risk you over complicate things. And how far do you go? Say a Blue maul near the Red try line is marched all the way back to the Blue five metre - do you keep playing advantage just "in case" it pops out and Blue run and score? What if the ball pops out into the in-goal, Red jump on it to score before you can call advantage over?

    I know that is reductio ad absurdium, but there is a broader risk you take trying to assess game situation rather than be consistent in application of advatnge.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    I think you are overcomplicating it !

    Yes, we can think of extraordinary scenarios , and if they happen act accordingly, but 99% of the time if blue are on point down and in possession they will want to keep going.
    (And if they don't want to keep going they wouldn't have competed after the red knock on)

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    For me , a team who has advantage at any stage of game ( as in time ) . Dont need to get over gain line for advantage to be over ,, i dont beleive you would need to say no adbantage got .
    They could of recycled ball in 3 rucks ,,gone across field & would pass as tactical advantage ..

    A blue maul ,,on red try line ,,wouldnt be allowed to be marchec backwards ( use it or loose it ) . But i get your point thunder .

    Remember ,,its only a knock on .
    Not deliberate so no penalty .
    The score for me cant be a factor .
    The time is only relevant once whistle has gone .

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    But after 80 mins , one new type of tactical advantage is possible and has to be considered .. the tactical advantage of being able to continue to play, and the game not ending

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