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Thread: Advantage after time expired

      
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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    I'm with crossref on this - in fact it even came up last season. I forget the colours, but the winning team knocked on in the last play (I'd made it clear it was the last play) and fly hacked the ball 10-15m down field where it was gathered by a losing player.

    I immediately called advantage over and heard someone shout "why can't we have the scrum, sir?" "That'd be full time" "Oh yeah!"

    For me, it comes down to benefiting from a mistake. Teams should benefit from good play, or at least not making mistakes. Winning the game because you can't hold on to a pass doesn't sit well with me - in fact (depending on the particular situation) it might cross my mind that it was deliberate.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveG View Post
    New ref this season so apologies if this a dumb question. I have searched this forum for an answer but I'm now more confused than ever, so....
    Welcome to the forum!

    I must disagree with your first sentence, though. This is an excellent question!

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But after 80 mins , one new type of tactical advantage is possible and has to be considered .. the tactical advantage of being able to continue to play, and the game not ending
    So how long do you give blue in this scenario? Play advantage until they infringe, or until red gain possession?

    The other option could be call advantage over, very quickly. So as soon as Blue gain possession, advantage is over. This still gives blue the freedom to play the ball as they wish in some regards, but it raises the risk red take possession, score and a 1pt loss becomes an 8pt loss...

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderhorse1986 View Post
    So how long do you give blue in this scenario? Play advantage until they infringe, or until red gain possession?

    The other option could be call advantage over, very quickly. So as soon as Blue gain possession, advantage is over. This still gives blue the freedom to play the ball as they wish in some regards, but it raises the risk red take possession, score and a 1pt loss becomes an 8pt loss...
    For me, it's the second option - advantage over very quickly.

    I deem that giving them the chance to win is sufficient advantage, but advantage does not extend to protecting their narrow loss.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    A team gaining possession of the ball after time is up have gained a massive advantage, since they can now decide whether to end the game or not.

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    I see no reason to provide any more or any less advantage to a team than they would have received in the first minute..

    didds

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    The scenario a few posts ago is a good one to illustrate
    Red knock on, and then hoof the ball 50m down the pitch

    In the first minute of the game you'd now have a scrum blue
    In the eighty first minute of the game , with blue losing by one point surely
    you would play advantage to give blue a chance to gather it, and if blue get possession, call adv over ...

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I see no reason to provide any more or any less advantage to a team than they would have received in the first minute..

    didds
    It depends how you define 'advantage', but unless you're going to adopt a very strict "made so many metres" or "two passes" or whatever as your definition, the advantage you give is always going to change throughout the game.

    In this example, merely getting possession is a much bigger advantage after 80 minutes than it would be in the first minute, simply because what it means to have possession changes. As Phil E says - you have the power to end the game or not, which you don't have at any other time.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Very helpful chaps.

    The reason for my question was that I just had a game with exactly this situation (although the knock on actually came during a line out which I had announced was 'last play' ). Reds, who were leading by less than 1 score,knocked on and I immediately blew for full time. So now I understand I diddled Blue, the losing team, out of the opportunity to win the game.

    So, in future, I think my approach should be :

    1. Don't announce 'last play' unless I have to - this gives me control and flexibility

    2. If the game is not close (i.e. 80-0) then just end the game at the first game ending event (so not bothering with advantage)

    3. if the game is close then play advantage

    4. Call 'advantage over' immediately if Blue regather from the knock on, I definitely buy the logic from crossref, docy, phil e , that being given the opportunity to win is a clear advantage.

    5. Keep playing until blue infringe (game ending event) - if red now get the ball back and score again (or more likely boot it in to touch), that's fine, at least blue had the opportunity to turn the score around.

    The only thing I'm now not really comfortable with is the scenario where red knock on but then regather the ball themselves (not via a penalty infringement). As docy said, Red are now benefiting from their mistake, fine if the next score makes no difference, but just seems wrong if there is 1 point in it to win the league.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    In general terms if red knock on and regather I think it's still possible to play advantage to blue .. for instance if this is 2m from the touchline and one red player is surrounded by three blue , I might well call adv and play on for a short time ..

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