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Thread: Advantage after time expired

      
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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    "The advantage must be clear and real. A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not enough".
    The advantage is really clear, because of the knock on they have possession and the game hasn't ended
    Adv gained.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    That sounds facetious to me: the game not ending is only an opportunity to gain an advantage. They can also (more likely) not gain an advantage, or even possibly lose more heavily.

    Advantage is defined: territory, or tactical freedom. Nowhere is game time defined - it's just an aspect of tactical advantage. So the tactical freedom they'd normally enjoy is curtailed simply because the clock is 80.01 and not 79.59, which I think is unfair to the non-offending team.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    That sounds facetious to me: the game not ending is only an opportunity to gain an advantage. They can also (more likely) not gain an advantage, or even possibly lose more heavily.

    Advantage is defined: territory, or tactical freedom. Nowhere is game time defined - it's just an aspect of tactical advantage. So the tactical freedom they'd normally enjoy is curtailed simply because the clock is 80.01 and not 79.59, which I think is unfair to the non-offending team.
    On the contrary - their tactical advantage extends to choosing whether the game ends or not. Playing advantage normally would remove this and, quite likely, take away their choice to end the game.

    TBH if a referee were to say, for example "ground lost, no advantage [which would be perfectly reasonable earlier in the game]. That's full time" that would be unfair to the non infringing team.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    To put it another way:

    Once you've called 'advantage', you must either call it over, or go back for the infringement. You don't have any other options.

    In this case, going back from the infringement is (generally) going to hugely disadvantage the non infringing team - so to me, that isn't an option, leaving calling 'advantage over' as all you have left, so why delay the inevitable?

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    That sounds facetious to me: the game not ending is only an opportunity to gain an advantage. They can also (more likely) not gain an advantage, or even possibly lose more heavily.

    Advantage is defined: territory, or tactical freedom. Nowhere is game time defined - it's just an aspect of tactical advantage. So the tactical freedom they'd normally enjoy is curtailed simply because the clock is 80.01 and not 79.59, which I think is unfair to the non-offending team.
    My mind is boggling :-)
    Blue are 1 point down with time expired , Red are in possession. The game is lost

    Red knock on and gift possession to Blue!
    A chance!

    Rich blows his whistle and announces 'no advantage gained by blue, game ends'

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    The advantage is really clear, because of the knock on they have possession and the game hasn't ended
    Adv gained.
    You keep saying that, but it doesn't make it real, or anything other than a potential.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    My mind is boggling :-)
    Blue are 1 point down with time expired , Red are in possession. The game is lost

    Red knock on and gift possession to Blue!
    A chance!

    Rich blows his whistle and announces 'no advantage gained by blue, game ends'
    In this case, you'd be right. But the scenario has shifted to red continuing to play the ball, kicking it 20-50 back, I'd call it no adv, full time, before they can run back and gain possession and have a POTENTIAL adv.

    Or they gain possession right away and start losing ground, I'd give them a little leeway but not as much as you would, I'm not going completely change my standard for adv because time is up.

    Hell I might not even know time is up until I've blown the whistle to go back.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    The alternative is that the game is over
    Have they clearly achieved a position that is taxtically preferable to alternative?

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    That sounds facetious to me: the game not ending is only an opportunity to gain an advantage. They can also (more likely) not gain an advantage, or even possibly lose more heavily.

    Advantage is defined: territory, or tactical freedom. Nowhere is game time defined - it's just an aspect of tactical advantage. So the tactical freedom they'd normally enjoy is curtailed simply because the clock is 80.01 and not 79.59, which I think is unfair to the non-offending team.
    Rich the non-offending team are 1 point down, with possession. They have the tactical advantage of deciding how they want to play the game at that point, keep going or end the game. The ones who may consider it unfair are the offending side who might consider that their infringement should have brought the game to an end, but advantage does not do that.

    I remian convinced the right answer is swift advantage over and let play continue, whether it goes back 20m does not matter to me, but if blue became under pressure they can still end the game by kicking it out for a losing bonus if they so choose.

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    Default Re: Advantage after time expired

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    My mind is boggling :-)
    Blue are 1 point down with time expired , Red are in possession. The game is lost

    Red knock on and gift possession to Blue!
    A chance!

    Rich blows his whistle and announces 'no advantage gained by blue, game ends'
    I don't think you've understood my position. Or I've misunderstood yours. You're saying that blue get possession, that's instantly "knock on-scrum advantage blue-advantage over", yes?

    I'm saying I play scrum advantage as per normal, so until they've made the gainline, passed out a few times, kicked, had maybe 5-10 seconds' possession to do something with the ball, that sort of thing.

    So if blue get possession and pass it out to the flyhalf, who gets sacked by red 6 and jackalled by 7, it's blow up, no advantage from the KO, end of game. Unlike the immediate advantage-over, where red get possession in an extra time they earned by knocking-on.

    I think it's fair to afford blue the protection of a normal spell of advantage, is all.

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