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Thread: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

      
  1. #361

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Thanks for your efforts with this, CR. I have shared with our local laws wallah.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #362

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Thanks for your efforts with this, CR. I have shared with our local laws wallah.
    Be careful with that! .. discovering the table can be quite unsettling for people ..there is a reason why "hug the messenger" isn't an expression.
    Last edited by crossref; 4 Weeks Ago at 23:01.

  3. #363
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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Perhaps one resason for people not noticing your "changes" is that many purely reflect practice and the simplification, in part, is recognising referee practice (that is what the law had already evolved into) than what was written.

    To explain.

    The hand off was , in "written" law, illegal untill a few short years ago. However in practive it has be allowed for ever. the law makers changed the book to reflect the truth that player were allowed to hand off despite the law book stating that it was an illegal act.


    The Tap "tackle" is a tackle with no attempt to bind. Again this is expressly prohibited in "written" law. But we donnot ping it. One day the law makers may recognise that reality and amend the wording. However the la in practice will not "change".

  4. #364

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    I am confused by your examples

    ..The hand off was introduced pre 2017 (2015 wasn't it?) , it wasn't a 2017 / 18 change

    Tap tackles, also no 2017/18 change , and not in my table

    You have trashed two straw men.
    There are plenty of actual 2017/18 changes .. they are in the table
    Last edited by crossref; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:01.

  5. #365
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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    I, merely, pointed out that changes to the wording of the laws were made to reflect current law practice are not changes to law per se.

    The two example I give one was a change to the wording after over 100 years of hand offs being allowed in pracetice despite what the book says. THe book finally caught up with reality. On the question of the tip tackle it still has not done so. One day, no doubt the wording will be amended to reflect reality. It will not me any law has changed.


    But I'm sure you really know all this already. It just does not fit your agenda.

  6. #366

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Well, Marc my agenda was simply to document the unexpected Law changes, in order to

    1 help WR to identify any unintended mistakes and correct them (that has been acheived, evidently there was just two, I was thanked by one of the authors for the useful input )

    2 to bring the other, IE deliberate , changes to people's attention so we can all ref to the current Laws , not the old ones

    I stand by that as a positive, constructive and useful agenda


    What's your agenda?
    Last edited by crossref; 4 Weeks Ago at 17:01.

  7. #367

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post

    The hand off was , in "written" law, illegal untill a few short years ago. However in practive it has be allowed for ever.
    The hand off has been allowed forever? That is an absolute and an absolutely long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post

    The two example I give one was a change to the wording after over 100 years of hand offs being allowed in pracetice despite what the book says.
    How do you know the hand off is greater than 100 years old? When was the first hand off? We kind of have an idea of the first handling of the ball. When was is not considered a breach of etiquette to hand off an opponent?

    I started rugby in 83, and we did hand off. But in USA we called it a stiff arm. Then again we were all pretty tough, robust, and gifted individuals having previously played high school football.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Perhaps one resason for people not noticing your "changes" is that many purely reflect practice and the simplification, in part, is recognising referee practice (that is what the law had already evolved into) than what was written.
    This is called tacit approval. It is kind of humourous in regard to rugby laws. Not so humourous with real laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    I, merely, pointed out that changes to the wording of the laws were made to reflect current law practice are not changes to law per se.
    This is called acknowledgment of that approval

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Oh dear me.

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Well, Marc my agenda was simply to document the unexpected Law changes, in order to

    1 help WR to identify any unintended mistakes and correct them (that has been acheived, evidently there was just two, I was thanked by one of the authors for the useful input )

    2 to bring the other, IE deliberate , changes to people's attention so we can all ref to the current Laws , not the old ones

    I stand by that as a positive, constructive and useful agenda


    What's your agenda?
    Rule 1: There are no changes.

    Rule 2: there are a number of alterations to wording to take into account referee practice.

    Rule 3: If you find a "deliberate" change refer to Rule 1

    Rule 4: If you find an "unintended" change refer to Rule 1

    My agenda is to referee games of rugby according to the laws taking account of WR and WRU directives and guidlines.

  10. #370

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Rule 1: There are no changes.

    Rule 2: there are a number of alterations to wording to take into account referee practice.

    Rule 3: If you find a "deliberate" change refer to Rule 1

    Rule 4: If you find an "unintended" change refer to Rule 1

    My agenda is to referee games of rugby according to the laws taking account of WR and WRU directives and guidlines.
    So you will continue to referee to 2017 laws? Good luck with that. And to the referees who follow you next Saturday.

    Anyway, let's test this:

    Scenario: Blue kick a Garryowen penalty. Red player catches ball, maul forms immediately. Maul becomes unplayable & ends unsuccessfully. Who gets the scrum feed?

    A: In 2017, Red would clearly have got the scrum feed. In 2019, Blue clearly gets the scrum feed.

    Given your Rule 1, what would you give?

    Here's another one:

    You award a PK to Blue after time has expired. In an effort to gain ground Blue kick for the corner, however ball bounces before going into touch.

    In 2017, this would have been a lineout to Blue. In 2019, it is half over.

    What are you going to give next Saturday?
    Last edited by Dickie E; 4 Weeks Ago at 23:01.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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