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Thread: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    No, not at all.

    I am saying that the after a knock on there are a number of ways the non infringing team might gain advantage.
    So normally you would call advantage' over if

    .. they get in front of the gain line (where the scrum would be) with clean possession

    .. they are able to kick (not under pressure ) some distance down field

    .. they are able to kick (not under pressure ) for touch with gain in ground

    .. they able to kick the ball out of play to end the game
    .. they touch down the ball in the opposition in goal to score a try
    .. they are able (not under pressure) to touch the ball in their own in goal for a 22m dropout

    I think you will agree with all of those , except the last one
    No advantage has been gained and the ball is now dead

    2018 Law 7.3 Advantage must not be applied and the referee must blow the whistle immediately
    when:
    f. The ball is made dead.


    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think your position is harder to justify with the 2018 law book
    On the contrary, the wording in the 2018 Laws strengthens everyone else's position, and weakens yours. By touching the ball down, the ball is made dead. If you allow a 22DO, you are still playing advantage and that is a Law Error. The correct decision is scrum 5m, defender's feed... all day, every day

    I don't know why you doggedly persist in trying to find a way around applying the correct Law. I guess your personal dislike for this Law outweighs your willingness to apply the Laws in the way you have been coached.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 26-12-17 at 01:12.
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  2. #42

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    But made dead is a red herring
    In four of those examples above advantage is gained by way of making the ball dead , and you are ok with the other three

  3. #43

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But made dead is a red herring
    In four of those examples above advantage is gained by way of making the ball dead , and you are ok with the other three
    At the point the ball is made dead THAT is the end of advantage. Where the ball ended up (in touch metres upfield) IS the advantage. What you are doing is giving the defending team an additional 22M gain in ground over and above where he ball goes dead. Its tantamount to instructing the TJ/AR to mark the touch 22M further upfield than where the ball went into touch.

    But worse than that, this is a Law that has been interpreted the correct way for 25 years, and you are taking it upon yourself to make up your own interpretations. In so doing, you create a rod for the back if the next referees who referee either of those teams. Those referees will be saddled with the task of undoing your failure to apply Law correctly.

    In refereeing, consistency is everything... rogue referees with their own unique spin on Laws are a pest. If you were a member of my Referees Association, and you took this attitude, refusing to referee the Laws the way you were instructed, you'd be out on your ear.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 26-12-17 at 11:12. Reason: spelling
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  4. #44

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Crossref
    Do you actually award a 22DO in the circumstances we are referring to when you are refereeing? If you do all I can now say Is that if you ever find yourself in Gloucestershire or Leicestershire you can expect a law error comment in your report. Knowing several members of your society, at different levels, I would not expect them to support your position and actually correct you before you ventured out again.

  5. #45

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But made dead is a red herring
    In four of those examples above advantage is gained by way of making the ball dead , and you are ok with the other three
    When you kick for touch, the advantage accrues BEFORE the ball is made dead. In your scenario, at the moment the ball is made dead, advantage can only accrue if the referee happens to take your point of view ie the advantage comes from the referee, not the player.
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    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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  6. #46

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    Crossref
    Do you actually award a 22DO in the circumstances we are referring to when you are refereeing? If you do all I can now say Is that if you ever find yourself in Gloucestershire or Leicestershire you can expect a law error comment in your report. Knowing several members of your society, at different levels, I would not expect them to support your position and actually correct you before you ventured out again.
    This is, of course, a powerful argument , and you are correct .. on the field I would give what I believe is the standard accepted call , ie the scrum

    Nevertheless, it is interesting that the one specific piece of law directing referees to award a 5m scrum rather than a 22m has been removed from the Law Book .

    Imo that Law (covering knock on INTO the in goal) is the source of it all.. it came to be taken as applying INSIDE the in goal as well.

    Now it has gone it will be interesting to see if generally accepted practice consequently changes
    Last edited by crossref; 26-12-17 at 13:12.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    22.13 covered knock on in the in-goal.

  8. #48

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Yes, that tells you where the scrum is, if there is a scrum. If advantage is played and gained we dont have a scrum. So the question is whether you can gain adv by making it dead for a dropout... As per posts above

  9. #49

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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    I've not looked at any of the threads on simplified law book as I've heard nothing official from my society
    Out of interest, has anyone received anything from their Society?

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Where the 2018 Law Book is actually different from 2017

    I've started a new thread on KO into goal in the New Laws category.

    Then we can keep posting other differences.

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