Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 66

Thread: From ARU online referee course

      
  1. #1

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    11,632
    Thanks (Received)
    87
    Likes (Received)
    1049

    Default From ARU online referee course

    My answer in magenta. Their "correct" answer in blue. I don't think their "correct" answer is correct:

    Capture.JPG

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Dickie E; 31-12-17 at 09:12.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #2

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    14,660
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1357

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    I am confused by the structure of the question, if it's incorrect that it's wrong , then it's right etc.

    For me if B gain possession in the maul but subsequently ignore my call of use it, I would give the scrum to Team A , and I don't think anyone would complain.

  3. #3

    Referees in New Zealand
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    12,930
    Thanks (Received)
    98
    Likes (Received)
    1327

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    Law 17.6 (c) Scrum following maul. The ball is thrown in by the team not in possession when the maul began. If the referee cannot decide which team had possession, the team moving forward
    before the maul stopped throws in the ball. If neither team was moving forward, the
    attacking team throws in the ball


    Team A took the ball in, so regardless of what happens after that, if the maul end unsuccessfully, team B throw the ball into the subsequent scrum

    The ARU answer is correct
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 31-12-17 at 10:12.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

  4. #4
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    NRB
    Grade
    IRB level 1
    Join Date
    13 Apr 15
    Posts
    668
    Thanks (Received)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    143

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    From the 2018 rules:

    A maul ends unsuccessfully when the ball's available, the ref says "use it" and it's then not played.

    Scrum sanction, unsuccessful maul: feeding team is the team not in possession at the start of the maul.


    Seems a bit... counterintuitive, and I suspect many more would complain if you gave it to team B than team A, but by the letter of the law team B gets the scrum.

  5. #5

    Referees in England
    Balones's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Leics
    Grade
    NP Performance Reviewer
    Join Date
    24 Oct 06
    Posts
    579
    Thanks (Received)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    146

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    I am pedantic enough to get annoyed wnen I see questions that mention taking a ball into a maul. Nobody does this. Rather we have a side in possession when a maul is formed. How can you take a ball into something that doesn’t exist?

    In practice I would have thought that it is the defending side that creates a maul and not the side in possession. Without the defence we don’t have anything except a team in possession of the ball.
    Last edited by Balones; 31-12-17 at 10:12.

  6. #6
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cambridge and St Neots
    Grade
    I am a Fan
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Posts
    1,185
    Thanks (Received)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    176

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    So if you turn over the ball in the maul, you can ignore the referee's call to use it with impunity.
    As ever the law writers has failed to think through what they have written.
    They cover the standard case - the ball carrier's team retain the ball - but fail to even cover the turn over.

    Sanction needs to be rewritten

    Sdie in possession fails to respond to call of "use it"
    Scrum, side not in possession to put in.

  7. #7

    Referees in England
    Balones's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Leics
    Grade
    NP Performance Reviewer
    Join Date
    24 Oct 06
    Posts
    579
    Thanks (Received)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    146

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post
    So if you turn over the ball in the maul, you can ignore the referee's call to use it with impunity.
    As ever the law writers has failed to think through what they have written.
    They cover the standard case - the ball carrier's team retain the ball - but fail to even cover the turn over.

    Sanction needs to be rewritten

    Sdie in possession fails to respond to call of "use it"
    Scrum, side not in possession to put in.
    I can understand your logic and have some sympathy but the logic behind the law is that you are only certain about who is in possession when the maul starts. When a maul forms you are unsighted and as such may not be able to determine who is in possession when it collapses. The law takes the possible inconsistency out of the situation.
    Last edited by Balones; 31-12-17 at 11:12. Reason: Typo

  8. #8

    Referees in Ireland


    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 1
    Join Date
    25 May 16
    Posts
    443
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    I have had following in a match .
    Maul , with ball at team A .
    Team B have gained possession of ball .
    Maul gone to ground legally & ball not available .

    I then awarded scrum to team B .
    As they were not initial team to have the ball at maul creation .

    However .
    Had maul gone to ground , again with team B now in possession .
    With ball clearly playable ,,i would still say use it & expect same to be gone .

    I couldnt see me offering a scrum to team B , for now not using a clearly playable ball .
    I also couldnt see any team deliberately not using same .
    Regardless of score or pitch position or even if 1 team had a dominant scrum

  9. #9

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    11,632
    Thanks (Received)
    87
    Likes (Received)
    1049

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    I can understand your logic and have some sympathy but the logic behind the law is that you are only certain about who is in possession when the maul starts. When a maul forms you are unsighted and as such may not be able to determine who is in possession when it collapses. The law takes the possible inconsistency out of the situation.
    The scenario is that the ball is quite clearly at the back on one team's side. No ambiguity who has possession otherwise the ref would never say "use it"
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #10
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 3
    Join Date
    03 Sep 14
    Posts
    3,330
    Thanks (Received)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    507

    Default Re: From ARU online referee course

    The matrix in 2018 Law Book (Pg 91)


    Infringement / stoppage:


    Failure to “use it” at scrum, ruck or maul.

    Location of scrum:

    In the scrum zone at the point closest to where the scrum, ruck or maul took place.

    Who throws in:

    The team not in possession.

    Note it does not refer to "when the maul formed". It refers to "Failure to use" and "the team not in possession". For me that implies the side "Failing" to use us is "punished by the loss pof the ball.

    the 2017 Law books which we have (apparently) to carry as well says:

    17.6 UNSUCCESSFUL END TO A MAUL

    (g) If the ball carrier in a maul goes to ground, including being on one or both knees or sitting,
    the referee orders a scrum unless the ball is immediately available.
    When the ball is available to be played the referee will call “Use it!” after which the ball must
    be played within five seconds. If the ball is not played within five seconds the referee will
    award a scrum and the team not in possession of the ball is awarded the throw-in.


    Note it does not say "the team not in possession when the maul formed".


    For me 17.6 (g) Trumps (c) in this special case.
    Why was the "use it" law brought in? To prevent sides wasting time holding the ball in to run the clock down and then get a new scrum to waste more time. Therefore it is illogical to reward a side for oing just that.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •