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Thread: Abusing referees

      
  1. #11

    Referees in Ireland


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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    Hi didds .
    Our society didnt look to compare new book to old book , with view of looking for perceived law changes . It was mentioned that the new trial laws were not in book , as they are still trials . We were told that there had been no law changes , it was simply a thinner book ..
    To be honest it didnt really get much attention .

    Im not suggesting that there arent inconsistencies between books .
    And for a new ref starting this season looking to knuckle down & read book , it can im sure be confusing ..even with the touch definition in old book being over ruled by experiment laws ..

    This is why im asking ,,are we as refs getting proper structured guidance of laws .
    Or are too many simply given law book & left to work it out for them selves ..

    In irfu land , as ive said before ,,we get great weekly meeting mentoring by appointed speakers / members / professional referees about maybe tackle / ruck 1 week ,,followed by line out following week ,, scrum week after that etc etc .

    On top of that , if any member wants to bring a question or asks for clarity about how best to properly ref or manage a situation ,,they will get the answer that same evening .

  2. #12
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    I’ll jump in here, i’m a new ref in RFU land, certainly for saturdays and the 15 aside game (6 years minis but thankfully no significant abuse), I’m fairly thick skinned, and enjoy the banter but don’t have experience to know where the line is to ask a spectator to leave is. I think I would probably warn first, at least once, before acting, and guess i’ll Know it when I see it.

    i’ve had no guidance as yet on this sort of thing from my county, but i’ll not criticise them for that as circumstances are such that I haven’t been able to get to as many monthly meetings as i’d like. If i’m honest, if I were less confident and didn’t have advice like this forum to work from I would probably feel in at the deep end.

    I’ve yet to be assessed so I could be doing a terrible job, and I guess then i’ll find out what guidance and support there is! But there probably is an element of truth in saying they’ll let anyone with a whistle in the middle, but you would at least need your RFU level 2 first before you got a county appointment

  3. #13

    Referees in England


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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    Flish .. ask for an assessment ! Its a very reasonable request, if you have a mentor or whatever start their , else just find out who assigns assessor s and ask him/her ..

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post

    I’ve yet to be assessed so I could be doing a terrible job, and I guess then i’ll find out what guidance and support there is! But there probably is an element of truth in saying they’ll let anyone with a whistle in the middle, but you would at least need your RFU level 2 first before you got a county appointment

    Not a chance here. The first time you referee anything from youth up your mentor / assessor / advisor will be present in fact up to 6 games will be monitored by a mentor.

    I would be very worried if other countries allowed a guy on the field without such support in place.

  5. #15
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Flish .. ask for an assessment ! Its a very reasonable request, if you have a mentor or whatever start their , else just find out who assigns assessor s and ask him/her ..
    Reliably informed am ‘on the list’, one of the assessors was at my game last week for the other game onsite, so I know it’s coming soon.

  6. #16
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Not a chance here. The first time you referee anything from youth up your mentor / assessor / advisor will be present in fact up to 6 games will be monitored by a mentor.

    I would be very worried if other countries allowed a guy on the field without such support in place.
    Wish that we’re the case here, am all for the self assessment and learning post match (and that is working), but having someone there giving you instant support and feedback would be nice. But still, I have you lot ��

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Wish that we’re the case here, am all for the self assessment and learning post match (and that is working), but having someone there giving you instant support and feedback would be nice. But still, I have you lot ��
    Sadly not always consistent in the 6 game mentoring system. The only support I've had is from asking other refs I've got to know to watch me and that was only once on a youth game. I was due an assessment but the game was called off.

    So far, 20 matches and no formal assessment. Thankfully my society feedback cards are positive so I get the impression I'm doing ok. Grade 9 under 16s county game today!

  8. #18

    Referees in England
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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Very Orwellian

    So lets test it
    . what is your view on the cavalry charge ? Specifically does one player charging on his own constitute a cavalry charge?
    (because in the 2017 Law Book he does, but in the 2018 Law book he doesn't )
    Give it a rest will you please.
    Or at least confine it to one thread.

    soap.jpg

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


  9. #19
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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    To expand. We have to ref a minimum of 6 games per season or we lose our license. A few years back I missed almost a whole season following an operation. I managed 3 games at the tail end of the season and three AR role so kept my license. but a four years earlier missed an entire season managed few agre group games but not up t oa level 2 game. So I had to be assessed again before getting my L2 license back. OK I did not go through the full process or L" qualification but an assesor was allocated to and he had to be happy to recommend my license be reissued. Thankfully he was happy after the first game. But I had more frequent assessment through the season that I came back.

    This is partly why I think the referee from Newport in the OP article replies has had a few sour grapes. Not all refs get their L2 in the first place. They stay as L1s (only age grade stuff). It's one area we have generally got it right in Wales.

    Now if only we could get the Welsh team right!

  10. #20

    Referees in Scotland


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    Default Re: Abusing referees

    There are lots of things here we do not have enough information to be sure on the fault, but I highlight a couple of points.

    1. New referees get little or no support in how to deal with this sort of stuff, what there powers are and who would ultimately take responsibility if this happens. Regardless of that, if he is getting abused, it doesn't stop and the supporter (and home club) refuse to deal with it what option does he have?
    2. Linked to above clubs need to take more responsibility about this. There should be a club representative (not the coach) who is available to deal with things like this. It gets difficult and murky in a public park as you cannot enforce the spectator moving, but I would expect a club secretary or official to take responsibility and in theory should have more success getting rid of the offender. Ultimately they carry the can for the abuse if they refuse to name the supporter in any subsequent investigation.

    It can be lonely out there and I can count on one hand the number of games I've been properly welcomed at a club and had an official on hand to deal with this sort of this. Very disappointing.

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